Random rant


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1 hour ago, Gareth Halfacree said:

Because that's a bit of a slog, especially if the bootloader's going to need regular updates...

 

Most of Armbian is universal and unrelated to specific hardware feature that would be developed or maintained by specific HW vendor. There is a lot outside this area and daily maintenance costs of Armbian project are already around 2000 EUR. "Customers" contribution is around 10 - 15 EUR per day, hw vendors covers a few, while all the rest is paid by us, developers and maintainers ... Why I am saying this? Because resources are long gone, we can't possibly expand them and there were "1000 of people" before you asked for some improvement ... we also keep some of them in a separate forum section but TBH most of the developers ("you" compensate 0% of their time) don't have time to care what "customers" needs. Some small things users would provide a beer for, can easily costs hundreds of working hours * n ... mission impossible.

 

If you want to improve your support level, start here:

https://forum.armbian.com/forum/54-help-wanted/ (save time to those that saves time for everybody)

https://github.com/armbian/build/issues (helps everybody)

https://forum.armbian.com/subscriptions/ (cover costs you create by asking questions that contributes nothing)

 

If you seriously want this installer to work better or to improve this or that, welcome to organise and finance its refactoring, development, research, ... There was one try a year back, but lead developer lost interest. I don't even know how and where we start that talk. Was it on forum, github, irc, ...

 

Currently we try to improve armbian-config tool. You can observe how little resources are currently around to start dealing with this:

 

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Armbian is a community driven open source project. Do you like to contribute your code?

1 hour ago, Gareth Halfacree said:

I have paid money for a commercial product with support,

 

I explained you how is support with community supported open source software. Like Armbian, Debian or many other community projects in general. 99.9% of the software you use has nothing to do with "commercial support" you might have with your HW vendor. It's their choice and expense what level of support they will provide for you. 

 

You were complaining about the software we have created and we maintain. That's why I have reproduced some stuff especially for you. Even you have noticed it before, it seems you don't get it. Your relationship remains intolerant and you are trying to put a blame on me as being hostile.

 

1 hour ago, Gareth Halfacree said:

I'll be honest: if I'd know about your user-hostile attitude

 

I told you that we have no resources to work on your ideas and that we owe you nothing. What is hostile in that? Did I perhaps use impolite wording to express my frustration which is being unable to help you?

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35 minutes ago, Igor said:

You were complaining about the software we have created and we maintain.

 

No, I was not: I was asking the vendor of the network attached storage device I paid for if there was a convenient way of upgrading its bootloader. Your input was neither requested nor desired.

 

37 minutes ago, Igor said:

I told you that we have no resources to work on your ideas and that we owe you nothing. What is hostile in that?

 

Perhaps this is a language barrier thing, so allow me to be clear: you are being extremely hostile. When people post on this specific sub-forum, it's with the expectation they're engaging in a professional discourse with the people who support the device they paid for - i.e. Kobol. They are not attacking you personally, nor the Armbian project: they, like I, simply want to get the device they paid for to work as promised. Jumping down their throat claiming that "we owe you nothing" and demanding additional payment on top of the device cost is hostile.

 

I'm a technology journalist, and I've already published two reviews of the Helios64 and Armbian on the Helios64. Given your attitude, I will be updating those reviews to warn that unless you're willing to either write the code yourself or contribute to Armbian's - absolutely ridiculous, from your claims - running costs you will not be able to seek assistance with the software - even from Kobol itself - without being attacked. I will further recommend that readers avoid the Armbian project as a whole, and any device which relies upon it.

 

I feel that you've lost sight of the goals of your project: what is an operating system without its users?

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33 minutes ago, Gareth Halfacree said:

Your input was neither requested nor desired.

 

43 minutes ago, Gareth Halfacree said:

When people post on this specific sub-forum, it's with the expectation they're engaging in a professional discourse with the people who support the device they paid for - i.e. Kobol.

 

This is public forum, just not regulated by Armbian staff. This is still not one to one professional technical support session. You paid for the device or some support with vendor which relationship is not my business, but support efforts in general are almost entirely covered by this large grey zone.

I don't want anything from you if you expect anything from me - we operate on your donations, which are free willing act. If one don't give or help with anything (for what you already got) it's a moral problem one have to live with. If you want support, request is denied and reasons represented. If you ask for some features to add, welcome to tinance things ... if you put a pressure on vendor that they will have to fix this and that instead of lazy community donators, I will stand on their side. Their support capacity also have limits. You challenge that limited capacity all the time while they have less/no weapons to fight back.
 

47 minutes ago, Gareth Halfacree said:

Perhaps this is a language barrier thing, so allow me to be clear: you are being extremely hostile.

 

Now tell me how to represent you facts that might be conflicting with your ideas and beliefs in less hostile way? Bear in mind that reality is actually harsher. 

 

58 minutes ago, Gareth Halfacree said:

They are not attacking you personally, nor the Armbian project

 

I intentionally used quotes to make it impersonal since this problem is not personal.

 

58 minutes ago, Gareth Halfacree said:

simply want to get the device they paid for to work as promised.

 

That is between you and them. Still anyone is allowed to question this relationship. Linux is a community project and where is the line where supports end?

 

1 hour ago, Gareth Halfacree said:

either write the code yourself or contribute to Armbian's - absolutely ridiculous

 

Ridiculous are users wishes. You don't cover download server electricity, while you want to have software support level worth billions. This is how things looks from our perspective which you completely ignore. It's just your personal problem and a duty of HW vendor to support you ...

 

1 hour ago, Gareth Halfacree said:

Jumping down their throat claiming that "we owe you nothing" and demanding additional payment on top of the device cost is hostile.

 

What is hostile? Using Armbian with surrounding infrastructure without contributing anything in return? Perhaps extreme offence when asking for more?  I know that just rare people see what do they get ... (searching for best ones could take hours, but is good enough):
 

 

 

33 minutes ago, Gareth Halfacree said:

I'm a technology journalist, and I've already published two reviews of the Helios64 and Armbian on the Helios64.  Given your attitude, I will be updating those reviews

 

:o Intimidating people that donates their free time to keep software on top level, well maintained and reliable? And in this case even helping advancing professional career. As an opinion maker you have even bigger responsibility to understand and see the background. The whole package. 

 

1 hour ago, Gareth Halfacree said:

I feel that you've lost sight of the goals of your project: what is an operating system without its users?

 

Perhaps you don't know what we actually do?

 

Have a nice weekend!

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7 minutes ago, Igor said:

You paid for the device or some support with vendor which relationship is not my business

 

And yet you seem very keen to make it your business. Even when your input is clearly unwelcome.

 

I wonder how much of the claimed €2,000 a day running costs could be reduced if you didn't spend your time writing posts about how you have no time to fix bugs?

  

6 minutes ago, Igor said:

Intimidating people

 

Nothing to do with intimidation, everything to do with ensuring people know what to expect - and what they can expect is an absolute inability to request support with something that's clearly broken without being attacked by you. It's literally my job to warn people about things like that.

 

7 minutes ago, Igor said:

If you want support, request is denied and reasons represented.

 

I don't want support from you. I'd be happy if you never spoke to me again. I would like support from Kobol. On this, the Kobol forum. Linked from the Kobol website. For the purpose of customer support.

 

@gprovost Is this really the project you want to tie your company to?

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54 minutes ago, Gareth Halfacree said:

spend your time writing posts about how you have no time to fix bugs?

 

54 minutes ago, Gareth Halfacree said:

request support with something that's clearly broken without being attacked by you. It's literally my job to warn people about things like that.

 

We fix bugs every day, while you are not in a position to put any pressure on that efforts. That's the point!
 

54 minutes ago, Gareth Halfacree said:

I don't want support from you.

 

Being extremely supportive or being extremely hostile changes nothing in term of support from end users side. It never reached over 1% of the total costs. It's about your attitude towards community developed software. 

 

54 minutes ago, Gareth Halfacree said:

I'd be happy if you never spoke to me again.


If I am polite and supportive to "you", questions (on my time and expense) never stops. It seems you never looked from the giving side?

 

54 minutes ago, Gareth Halfacree said:

the Kobol forum. Linked from the Kobol website. For the purpose of customer support.


This will make all problems go away?

 

54 minutes ago, Gareth Halfacree said:

everything to do with ensuring people know what to expect - and what they can expect is an absolute inability to request support with something that's clearly broken without being attacked by you. It's literally my job to warn people about things like that.

 

So you do support non-profit open source project. Thank you!

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1 minute ago, Igor said:

Being extremely supportive or being extremely hostile changes nothing in term of support from end users side.

 

So you choose to attack and abuse... because it'll attract developers? Are you sure about that logic? I can tell you now, I'll certainly not be getting involved in the project's development. Nor will I recommend anyone else to do so.

2 minutes ago, Igor said:

If I am polite and supportive to "you", questions (on my time and expense) never stops. It seems you never looked from the giving side?

 

First, politeness takes no more time than being abusive. Second, I literally want none of your time. I did not call you into this thread. I did not send you a private message. I did not send you an email, an instant messenger, find you on IRC... I posted a message to Kobol, on the Kobol sub-forum, which is maintained by Kobol for the support of Kobol customers. You went out of your way to visit the Kobol sub-forum, find my post, and berate me for something I haven't done.

 

Like I said, if you spent less time doing things like that and more time bug-fixing, maybe the bills would be lower and Armbian more usable.

4 minutes ago, Igor said:

So you do support non-profit open source project.

 

I very much do, yes. I've created open-source projects, documented open-source projects, maintained open-source projects, donated to open-source projects, and have used nothing but open-source software for two decades. Projects both bigger and smaller than Armbian. But you wouldn't know that, because you made an assumption in the thread you specifically sought out.

 

Please leave me alone. This is bordering on harassment now.

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