Armbian images for R6S & R6C

[Efe Çetin]

Mainline still doesn't support PCIe2 etc. https://gitlab.collabora.com/hardware-enablement/rockchip-3588/notes-for-rockchip-3588/-/blob/main/mainline-status.md

 

But pcie2 support is exists on midstream kernel. It may be worth to try 

[Dantes]

Tried the Bullseye CLI, its feels solid 

Feedback:

• SHA is missing: https://redirect.armbian.com/nanopi-r6s/Bullseye_legacy_minimal.sha
• blank password will not be allowed after installation, so you are stuck on the login screen
• hardware acceleration does not work for bullseye ( bullseye=debian jammy=ubuntu i had to google it )
• no tor-browser? ( i know I'm pushing my luck here )

Other than that, it was a pleasant experience

Edited May 26, 2023 by Dantes
typo

[Igor]

On 5/26/2023 at 1:03 PM, Dantes said:

SHA is missing:

https://forum.armbian.com/topic/27323-http-error-404-for-sha-hashes-banana-pi-m1/#comment-165132

 

 

On 5/26/2023 at 1:03 PM, Dantes said:

blank password will not be allowed after installation, so you are stuck on the login screen

SSH & serial login is enabled by default. I don't think allowing blank password would be a good idea under such circumstance. Yes, its users call, but we have to prevent at least most stupid actions. One can always override this later in case he knows what he is doing. We even used to have password complexity check error, which was perhaps too hard and a while back was downgraded to a warning.

IMO there are enough of safety compromises. 

 

On 5/26/2023 at 1:03 PM, Dantes said:

hardware acceleration does not work for bullseye ( bullseye=debian jammy=ubuntu i had to google it )

 

Making it work on Ubuntu packages base represented months of work in exchange for virtually nothing. Rare people is able to understand that and most people are just used to consume without compensation, complaining and asking for more. If you / people would understand what they are asking for ...  it would already be a great step forward. No, this is not easy to make. Especially because everyone expects from developers to pay for everything. Join, do your part. But not with requests and demands. Project would hire several developers to make it better for you ...
 

On 5/26/2023 at 1:03 PM, Dantes said:

no tor-browser?

As it is impossible to satisfy everyone in this aspect, we don't even try. Armbian provides clean base images with minimum set of applications. Additional applications can be installed classical APT way, via armbian-config or you start making your own images - build framework https://github.com/armbian/build is a masterpiece. You can do your own Armbian based image and adding your own applications in no time.

[Dantes]

Thank you for responding, but you take it seemingly the wrong way, so assume
its me and let me rephrase:

 

I am not asking for anything. Since its a WIP, I assumed (wrongly?) that the project

would like some feedback.

 

> SSH & serial login is enabled by default. I don't think allowing blank password
> would be a good idea under such circumstance. Yes, its users call, but we have
> to prevent at least most stupid actions. One can always override this later in
> case he knows what he is doing. We even used to have password complexity check
> error, which was perhaps too hard and a while back was downgraded to a warning.
> IMO there are enough of safety compromises.

 

I was merely pointing out the 'inconsistency' of
* Being able to set a blank password during installation    and
* Not being able to login upon reboot

> Making it work on Ubuntu packages base represented months of work in exchange
> for virtually nothing. Rare people is able to understand that and most people
> are just used to consume without compensation, complaining and asking for more.
> If you / people would understand what they are asking for ... ;) it would
> already be a great step forward. No, this is not easy to make. Especially
> because everyone expects from developers to pay for everything. Join, do your
> part. But not with requests and demands. Project would hire several developers
> to make it better for you ...
 
Not what I meant at all mate. I was merely pointing out that not every user
knows that (in this case) Bullseye means Debian and Jammy means "Ubuntu". I had
to google it. A bit more information on the d/l page would have been most
welcome :)

> As it is impossible to satisfy everyone in this aspect, we don't even try.
> Armbian provides clean base images with minimum set of applications.
> Additional applications can be installed classical APT way, via armbian-config
> or you start making your own images - build framework
> https://github.com/armbian/build is a masterpiece. You can do your own Armbian
> based image and adding your own applications in no time.

 

Guilty, I jumped the gun here a bit. I contacted the "Tor Project" that there
is a userbase that uses dev. boards as daily drivers (rpi,opi,nanopi) and want
to use Tor Browser but can't. So with any luck in the future we hopefully can
download it from their website. But here one can D/L a 3rd party port:
https://sourceforge.net/projects/tor-browser-ports/files/

 

 

That being said, since you mentioned building images, I could build my own,

but to what end? I am already using what I want. And personally I believe that no

one would want to D/L what I build, just from a security perspective for starters.

 

Could you elaborate, because I do not understand why an end user would want

to build his own image.

 

[Igor]

On 6/2/2023 at 9:31 PM, Dantes said:

I am not asking for anything. Since its a WIP, I assumed (wrongly?) that the project would like some feedback.

 

WIP is this device, while you are mainly asking for things that are unrelated to the device. 

 

Yes, we would like to hear from you, but try to understand your & project limits. General ideas goes to forum https://forum.armbian.com/forum/38-feature-requests/ but since project does not have 100-1000 full time employees or any coverage for their food, it will unlikely that ideas will be processed. This is open project - when you see a problem, you are welcome to fix it. This is how things works.

 

Make sure to be around when we need you to help yourself.

 

On 6/2/2023 at 9:31 PM, Dantes said:

Not what I meant at all mate. I was merely pointing out that not every user knows that (in this case) Bullseye means Debian and Jammy means "Ubuntu". I had to google it. A bit more information on the d/l page would have been most welcome

 

This information is in the FAQ, but anyway this changes a little as Debian Bullseye is not the same as Armbian Bullseye. Its based on, userland packages are used from respective upstream variants, while critical hardware components are always ours. The way images are assembled too. Just packages versions and updates are related / connected. If we spent 2 months to bring up video acceleration within Ubuntu packages base, we won't even try to do the same for Debian package base, because you are some die hard Debian user. Your request will be denied on the spot. The same would go if support would be initiated on Debian first.

When it comes to hardware acceleration question is usually about severe changes that needs to be applied to base OS. Its nothing about Debian or Ubuntu anymore ...

 

On 6/2/2023 at 9:31 PM, Dantes said:

Guilty, I jumped the gun here a bit. I contacted the "Tor Project" that there is a userbase that uses dev. boards as daily drivers (rpi,opi,nanopi) and want to use Tor Browser but can't. So with any luck in the future we hopefully can download it from their website.

 

We would like to avoid fights of what should be present on the images and what not, so we tend to provide as minimal as possible. Nobody can't say - why this and that comes preinstalled ... We want to cover this with armbian-config / some installer, that would install this in no time. With armbian-config it is possible to cover any kind of installation, even build from sources,

 

On 6/2/2023 at 9:31 PM, Dantes said:

Could you elaborate, because I do not understand why an end user would want to build his own image.

 

To have own pre-configured perfect system with latest packages and upgrades one can deploy to various of devices regardless of resources and architecture?

 

Our project fits somewhere between embedded and amateur user Linux, those that comes with distro branded Debian or Calamares installer. Where setup is tailored for average Joe which can select several things in the install process. Here, you download Live system which you flash and use. You can install it to internal memory, but this is more or less transferring unchanged root file-system to different media. Many of build framework users are using Armbian as a base for their images. That comes with one application - which is pretty much default case in embedded Linux. 

 

And then you have people in the segment of Gentoo, LFS and similar that just need to build from sources. There are different type of end users ...

[Dantes]

Thank you for the long answer, I really appreciate it.

 

FYI:

 

When I use the Armbian JammyMinimal CLI the USB 3.0 port is not working:

 

/:  Bus 04.Port 1: Dev 1, Class=root_hub, Driver=xhci-hcd/1p, 5000M
/:  Bus 03.Port 1: Dev 1, Class=root_hub, Driver=xhci-hcd/1p, 480M
/:  Bus 02.Port 1: Dev 1, Class=root_hub, Driver=ohci-platform/1p, 12M
/:  Bus 01.Port 1: Dev 1, Class=root_hub, Driver=ehci-platform/1p, 480M

 

When I use the Armbian JammyCLI the USB 3.0 port works just fine:

 

/:  Bus 04.Port 1: Dev 1, Class=root_hub, Driver=xhci-hcd/1p, 5000M
    |__ Port 1: Dev 2, If 0, Class=Mass Storage, Driver=uas, 5000M
/:  Bus 03.Port 1: Dev 1, Class=root_hub, Driver=xhci-hcd/1p, 480M
/:  Bus 02.Port 1: Dev 1, Class=root_hub, Driver=ohci-platform/1p, 12M
/:  Bus 01.Port 1: Dev 1, Class=root_hub, Driver=ehci-platform/1p, 480M

 

First I thought I was maybe missing a package, but I think the USB drivers are in the kernel ?

 

 

If anyone has a solution, I'm all ears

 

[EZ3000]

@Efe Çetin I am trying to get HW acceleration and audio passthrough on R6C Jammy and I am following instructions from OrangePi5 support forum "[GUIDE] Kodi on Orange Pi 5 with GPU Hardware Acceleration and HDMI Audio", but I am stuck here: 

sudo nano /etc/gdm3/custom.conf

Add the line below and save the file.

WaylandEnable=true

There is no /etc/gdm3/custom.conf file and Wayland can not be enabled... Will there be armbian image with Wayland desktop enviroment in near future? Is there any way to install Wayland over XFCE? Some other solution?

[Dantes]

Its unclear to me what the end-goal is for your question, but maybe your answer can be found in here:

 

[EZ3000]

The end-goal is to use R6C as NAS, HomeAssistant and Kodi multimedia player. But at the moment I am missing multichannel audio passthrough in Kodi. Audio passthrough section in settings is blank. I do not understand if it is because of missing of Wayland desktop enviroment, or something else? All guides I found so far instructed to make changes in /etc/gdm3/custom.conf file, but it is missing...

[Dantes]

I think you need to enable them in Kodi first:

https://kodi.wiki/view/Settings/System/Audio#Audio_Passthrough

 

[Jiff]

On 5/21/2023 at 4:18 PM, Dantes said:

What is the power draw for NanoPC-T6 ?

 

Hi Dantes, better late than never…

 

* An rpI4 8 GB RAM powered by a MW SNT-RS-50-5 + disk dock station (that has its own power supply) with a PNY CS900 240 GB SSD and a 2 TB Seagate Barracuda 7200.14 (AF) ST2000DM001-1CH164, my wattmeter shows ~16.4 W (there's some jitter).

 

* Adding the NanoPC-T6 16 GB RAM & 256 GB eMMC with a 512 GB Transcend NVMe, a Logitech M100 optical mouse, an USB 105 keys keyboard, original Jammy image booted logged into gnome, powered by a MW LRS-50-12 , it shows ~22.2 W (there's some jitter).

 

* With sysbench --threads=8 cpu run   running, it jumps @ ~25.8-26.2 W (there's some jitter - 26.2 W with the CPU monitor on) - let's say 26 W unless you run some more daemons.

 

So we can say it has a gross consumption of : ~5.8 W idle and ~9.6 W with all cores @ 100% (according to datasheets, both power supply have an energy efficiency of 86%).

 

As the wattmeter is showing an average power factor of 0.42 (it stays the same with or without the NanoPC-T6), the electrical meter consumption for it only is therefore : ~2.44 Wh idle and ~4.03 Wh with all cores @ 100%, which, with a load of daemons and serving (FTP, HTTP, etc) a bit @ home should stabilize it around 2.75 Wh @ the wall meter.

 

Talking energy invoice, using this number (2.75 Wh), that's 66 W.day, ~2.03 kW.month (30.5 days per month) and ~24.16 kW.year (365.25 days per year) if up 24/7, which is not too bad, considering it is around 3× more powerful than a RPI4.

 

Also, compared to an RPi4, the memory transfers are 32% faster (9,053 MiB/s & 11,929 MiB/s).

 

Conclusion : for a bit more consumption than a RPi4 and, at this time, almost the same base price, you have a very capable computer easily able to serve your own blog from home with a respectable number of simultaneous hits.

[Dantes]

Hi Jiff,

 

This is very much appreciated, especially when its a very detailed write up like this. So thank you very much for putting in the time. This unfortunately, means for me that I have part with my money yet again

 

Are there any drawbacks in the T6?

 

That power button I saw is a bit cumbersome for my fingers from what I could see from the images. Do I need to keep a pen around ?

 

Thanks again,

 

Dantes

[Jiff]

1 hour ago, Dantes said:

Are there any drawbacks in the T6?

Hi @Dantes

 

Not that I saw in my tests, USB is working well, mpv is accelerated but not vlc, the temperature is of course rising when pushing all cores @ 100% but I have to conduct 3 (same) long (45' or 1h) tests, one in the conditions of the first, case laying on the table with nothing else, then case lifted a bit and case lifted a bit with a 12 V 80×80 mm computer fan to see how it behaves.

 

I'll see the rest tomorrow or the day after as I stupidly killed my OS running a script supposed to update the FriendlyElec eFlasher from within the original image, which is Jammy (berk) gnome (berk, berk), this nasty thing has re-written /etc/fstab with just one line pointing to the SD card , so now I have to use a USB cable (A-C & M-M) that I do not have to install a fresh image from my computer (a Debian w/ XFCE).   The SD installation is out of question as the tarball supposed to contain the eFlasher is empty (or may be I did not understood that well the wiki, as the narrative is terriblly missing precision) - anyway, at this time, I'm condemned to use a FE image, but the first impression is excellent, it is snappy and opposite to things I read here and there, the HDMI connection to a full hd Iiyama 24" worked immediately when plugged.

 

For the power button, yep, you must keep a pen at hand.   About that, I remember I saw a "button" a long time ago made for this kind of problem, a self-adhesive silicon button on the outside with a plastic rod inside to push a small butto, but I do not remember where.

 

Note that as I do not use WiFi for security matter, I did not purchase a WiFi/BT M2 card, but I may be buying a LTE M2 card later to see if I can use it as an access point to/from mobiles to an internal VoIP/telephone network using FreeSwitch.

 

I also have to see (FE forums) if it is possible to fully boot from my NVMe or if, for the time being, /boot must stay on a the eMMC or SD card (can't remember the numbers, but it was faster than the Corsair 2 TB tested by another user here, excellent for databases).

 

I also have to read the Armbian doc, as I don't know yet how to generate my own image at this time.

 

BTW, I saw that 52PI made a caloduc radiator dedicated to the Orange Pi 5, so unless they create new brackets for the T6, you have to DIY, but it's worth it.   This isn't of course a solution when using the T6 as a computer for people and children, but when used as a server it rocks, well at least the RPi4 model rocks : today 18~19°C => CPU 32.6°C and less than 42.3°C (w/ Arctic MX-4) if I push the 4 overclocked (1,900MHz) cores @ 100% with some dust between the blades. See : https://52pi.com/products/ice-tower-cpu-rgb-led-light-cooling-fan-v2-0-for-orangepi-5?_pos=1&_psq=cooler+orange&_ss=e&_v=1.0   I hope they're gonna also make a vertical version as the RPi4 horizontal version is less effective than the vertical one by something like 1.4°C, this might look like a few, but temperature is critical against electro-migration into CPU & GPU, read this (written by an engineer that builds microprocessors) : https://qengineering.eu/overclocking-the-raspberry-pi-4.html

 

One more thing, the FE site always talks about a 12 V/2 A power supply, thus 24 W, but it can stand other tensions (up to 19 V IIRC) and if you plan to plug a lot of devices at once, be aware that the consumption can rise up to ~37.5 W, so a 12 V/4.2 A (50 W) power supply doesn't seem a bad idea.

Edited August 7, 2023 by Jiff
Added an URL about temperature action upon electro-migration.

[ct100]

Jiff it seems the Mean Well power supplys you are using have very bad power efficiency at low load... far away from the stated 83/86% at typical load the manufacturer writes in their datasheet. Or else it would not be possible to have such high idle power numbers.

 

Does your transcent ssd have deep sleep states and is APST active? I think you also have PCIe ASPM L1 off in your T6 so the PCIe link never goes into power saving mode.

 

Most RK3588 systems can easily beat Raspberry Pi 4 idle power consumption when used with an efficient power supply and power saving modes enabled.

 

[Jiff]

@ct100

 

Hi, you missed the part where I said that on the wattmeter there is :

 

* one RPi4 overclocked @ 1,900 MHz + one PS/2 keyboard hook throught a PS/2-SB + a USB 2.0 HUB w/ an Ethernet 10/100 Mbps,

  NB : RPi4 alone is ~2.5 W.

* one disk dock station using a 240 GB SSD + a 2 TB Seagate 7,500 RPM rust,

 

for the first measure and :

 

* one NanoPC-T6 + a USB Logitech B100 optical mouse + a 105 key USB keyboard + a USB 3.0 HUB.

 

for the second.

 

The measures looks good to me as they fit with manufacturers announced consumption, that said, you seem to make a confusion between the switching power supply (SPS) reactive power and its efficiency :

 

* efficiency expressed in %age is how much the power supply eats by itself which add to its _input_ current.

   eg: if your device eats 10 W and the SPS efficiency ratio is 86%, that mean the whole _input_ current for the SPS is :

  10  W÷0.86=11.63 W

 

* The power factor (PF) is the other of the PHI cosinus, which express the discrepancy between current and tension - if they match on the oscilloscope, then : PF = 1.0, which is a ferpect match meaning the SPS will only draw 11.63 W from the wall socket, but the more discrepancy you have (delay or head start between A & V), the lower the PF is (which BTW is normal for all SPS because of the harmonics it generates which make part of the current bouncing on its self-inductance (high-frequency transformer)), so if your PF = 0.5, that mean the SPS is now drawing :

11.63 W÷ 0.5=23.26 W from the wall socket.

 

However, as a private, your wall energy meter doesn't take his reflected power in account, only the active one, so you'll be invoiced only for 11.63 W and not 23.26 W BUT your meter breaker limit is not calculated in Watts but in VA (Volts × Ampères) - giving the same example (and cheating on the breaker VA power for the sake of the explanation), if your meter breaker cuts @ 20 VA, you're doomed, it'll break because 23.26 W > 20.0 W.

 

For companies, it doesn't work like that as it is the VA power that is taken in account, hence "some" efforts (using big self-inductances and/or capacitors) to correct a maximum of the discrepancy to get a PF as close as possible to 1.0, which will avoid to pay for lost VA by too much reactance.

 

To make an image, if you have ever used a CB, the reactive power is the SWR (Standing Wave Ratio) that express if your antenna length is correctly matched to the wave length, if it is, then the SWR tends toward 1.0, if it is too short or too long, the SWR is rising, which overloads the power output transistor and can even grill it if the SWR's really too high.

 

This is also why changing home bulbs for LEDs (of course powered by  SPS) may not be such a good idea if you use substantially more LED thinking you can do it because "the wattage is so low", it can be a benefit only at equal quantities of Lumens.

Edited August 8, 2023 by Jiff
One inversion a some smallchanges

[ct100]

@Jiff The question was about the power usage of the NanoPC T6. Why are you even talking about power factors, reactive or apparent power numbers? An end user only cares and gets billed for real power usage. Most low wattage power supplys dont have power factor correction because it is not needed and would only decrease efficiency. You should stick to reporting real power numbers so people dont get confused.

 

What i have written in my last post still stands. 22,2VA apparent power * 0,42 power factor = 9,324W real power. Thats a very high idle power number for a rk3588 system even with an USB-Hub attached. Do you realise that your power supply does not have 86% efficiency from 0-50W? Below 10W it is more likely something like 60% or even lower.

 

For NanoPC T6 its better to buy a simple 12V 2A wall power adapter with efficiency rating "VI". If you need more power buy a 30+W USB-C GaN charger that supports 12V output and add an USB-C to DC 12V PD Adapter.

 

Edited August 8, 2023 by ct100

[Jiff]

@ct100

 

You already have all the explanations you need to understand, although to understand them you have to get out of the tunnel of creed you build for yourself : you are confusing efficiency and power factor, the first one establishes the ratio between the SPS input current and its output (the difference from 100% being the SPS losses), the second one, the discrepancy between current and tension that supply the SPS that is the direct manifestation of its reactance.

 

BTW, GaN chargers, and by extension all chargers of this type, are only SPS with an additional logic in charge to negotiate the output tension and amperage with the device following the PD and/or QC protocols…

Edited August 8, 2023 by Jiff

[Jiff]

@Dantes

 

About the problem I made myself (no more boot), I first tried to use their update_tool, but I was afraid to make a bigger mistake as its PDF is not translated (gogol did it) and awfully missing detailed explanations, so I used a SD to eMMC image which worked like a charm.   Here, there's what I consider a conception error, because if you insert such a SD into the T6 and reboot, your OS and data are dead (crushed by a new automatic installation.  Of course, backups are there for such situations, but they should have used a security, even if it meant adding another button - the ferpection is not of this world…

 

Heating test (using : sysbench --threads=8 --time=1200 cpu run - twice) :

 

Measure of temperatures from one Little core (/sys/class/thermal/thermal_zone0/temp) and one Big core (/sys/class/thermal/thermal_zone4/temp) - This was made with a Debian bullseye desktop image.

 

Start : T6 up for ~35' => Little : 38.8°C - Big : 38.8°C - All temperatures in Celsius.

 

Time          Little          Big

20'              54.5           52.7

30'              56.4           53.6

As it was still rising, slowly but rising, I cheated around 33' : I put a metal box of 20 cigarillos open in V under the case to create some convection, that stopped the progression, so placing the T6 on a gated shelf would not be a bad idea.

40'              56.4           53.6

 

Now, the cooling slope :

30"             49.0            48.0

1'                49.0            48.0

1'30"          49.0            47.1

2'                48.0            47.1

2'30"          48.0            47.1

3'                47.1            47.1

3'30"          47.1            46.2

…

5'                46.2            46.2

15'              41.6            40.7

20'              40.7            40.7 - back to idle temperature

 

These numbers look right seeing the volume and mass of aluminium alloy of the case, the level of temperature and the fact that the case (unfortunately) do not have large fins.

 

This is a very good device, as even during this test the GUI was snappy and reactive.

 

There is something a bit weird though, the Big core max clocking is set to 2,256,000 when it is sold for 2,400,000 ; may be it was too hot at this speed - anyway, this is a 6% loss, so it is not that significant (and if it was done to contain the heat, then it's good - chances are they did not have had a metallurgical engineer at hand to calculate the right case).   This could also explain why the Little cores are hotter than the Big.

 

I did not test with a fan, as I finally don't have a 12 V 80×80 mm at home, only server fans @ 7,500 RPM and 77 dB, sooooo, not an option.

 

Oh, I discovered what I consider a severe flaw (well, let's say a youth sin), if you disable the auto-login of the default user (pi) into lightdm, you're doomed and obliged to re-install as it stops booting.   In fact, I was asking myself why the greeting screen of lightdm wasn't visible, now I know :/   I hope this will be fixed in a not so distant future as it forbids to use the T6 as a workstation in production.

 

Parallel to FriendlyElec, there's also some good work accomplished by our guests, their image is still not accelerated but I don't doubt it will be around this year's Q4.

Edited August 9, 2023 by Jiff
No BB code here :/

[Jiff]

@Dantes

 

This time, I "tested" the speed of an Erlang dynamic server, I quoted because I used apache2 ab that is not really representative of a real load and the server has no TLS proxy at this time.

 

The page is 23,374 byte, but what is interesting is it is a dynamic (generated for each request) page.

 

ab -l -n 10000 -c 500 http://server.home:8000/register

(which means : do 10,000 requests with a concurrency of 500)

 

Server Software:            Cowboy
Server Hostname:          server.home
Server Port:                     8000

Document Path:             /register
Document Length:         Variable

Concurrency Level:        500
Time taken for tests:      9.704 seconds
Complete requests:       10000
Failed requests:              0
Total transferred:           237274119 bytes
HTML transferred:          233344119 bytes
Requests per second:    1030.46 [#/sec] (mean)
Time per request:           485.219 [ms] (mean)
Time per request:           0.970 [ms] (mean, across all concurrent requests)
Transfer rate:                  23877.17 [Kbytes/sec] received

Connection Times (ms)
                        min  mean[+/-sd] median   max
Connect:           0          1       2.4          0       16
Processing:    24      474   117.4     456      862
Waiting:          15      473   117.4     455      862
Total:               39      475   116.6     456      863

Percentage of the requests served within a certain time (ms)
  50%    456
  66%    508
  75%    547
  80%    569
  90%    630
  95%    691
  98%    757
  99%    788
 100%   863 (longest request)
 

This is not bad at all, the 8 cores of the T6 goes to 100%, but event with that, the GUI is still responsive correctly.

 

 

There is a slight difference with a RPi4 (same site) overclocked at 1,900 MHz (same ab test, same software, same page)  :

 

Server Software:            Cowboy
Server Hostname:          rpi0.home
Server Port:                     8000

Document Path:             /register
Document Length:         Variable

Concurrency Level:        500
Time taken for tests:      61.201 seconds
Complete requests:       10000
Failed requests:              0
Total transferred:           236585785 bytes
HTML transferred:          232655785 bytes
Requests per second:    163.40 [#/sec] (mean)
Time per request:           3060.039 [ms] (mean)
Time per request:           6.120 [ms] (mean, across all concurrent requests)
Transfer rate:                  3775.13 [Kbytes/sec] received

Connection Times (ms)
                        min  mean[+/-sd] median   max
Connect:             0        1       2.4          1         21
Processing:       25 2959   393.1   3025    3353
Waiting:             25 2958   393.1   3024    3352
Total:                 46 2960    390.9   3025    3354

Percentage of the requests served within a certain time (ms)
  50%   3025
  66%   3075
  75%   3105
  80%   3124
  90%   3169
  95%   3206
  98%   3243
  99%   3267
 100%   3354 (longest request)

 

When the RPi4 was launched, the site where people could see it in photos and read about the specs was made of RPi4×13, it could have been covered by only T6×2 (let's say 3… or not, because the T6 is fully accelerated for a bunch of cryptographic operations).

 

I'm quite happy to have purchased this SBC, with a bit of explanations to kids and parents, it can very easily used as an every day computer for a super-price and a very low power consumption (also in enterprises), it can be an excellent multi-purpose server, with it's NPU it seems you can drive an honest AI and with hardware encoding of H.264 & H.265, I bet you can stream like a pro.   The OS images are still a bit too young, but I'm drooling thinking about what Armbian will build as a mature one.

 

Hehe, I just realized that the T6 is supporting the suspend to RAM (at the cost of ~2.4 W), thing that is unsupported by the Pi4 and will never be as I read an article 2 years ago saying it is impossible by construction.   O_o I just found the source of the little buzz in the treble gamut that I couldn't localize, the power supply, which is normal as I bought a 50 W to be able to hook 2 or 3 T6 on the same supply, 2.4 W is fully in it's bad zone.

 

I finally found a fan, some times ago I cobbled a small cardboard box with an undervolted (5 V through a USB plug) 12 V 80×80 mm fan for my neighbor's dock station with 2 HDD, he lend it to me for an hour, so I installed it upon the T6.   From 40.7°C idle, it got down to 33.3°C after 10', which is impressive because with 5 V it is quite slow, and the NVMe got down from 53°C to 44°C.   So it _must_ be ventilated - I will do that w/ two 12 V fans, one on top pushing the air down and one on bottom pushing the air up (to keep the NVMe at a temperature as low as possible).   Touching it, it was really cold instead of a little hot without a fan.

Edited August 10, 2023 by Jiff
Suspend to RAM OK

[Dantes]

@Jiff

 

Thanks again for the elaborate write ups, lately time has not been on my side It all seems very impressive and I will take some time to read it thoroughly. I did a write up for Ubuntu Jammy with MATE (on a r6c) which has video acceleration enabled. It pushes 40°C when playing 1080p with mpv/celluloid with the ambient room temperature around 25°C.

 

This could be a daily driver IF the kernel/security updates were more frequent, but as of now I'm hesitant to do any administrative duties like banking on it. I think I will designate the r6c as a router when OpenWRT is supported. Which means I will buy a T6 to do some more experimenting, yay!

 

I'm very happy that the power consumption is very low for these devices. The internal flash is fast enough around 250MB/s, but 32GB is not much space. So I will be needing a proper size M.2 

 

Thanks for all the feedback,

 

Dantes

 

[Jiff]

@Dantes

 

You're right about FE images updates, this is why I'm gonna try to learn how to create my own Armbian.

 

FYI the eMMC of the T6 is 256 GB w/ 241 GB free for the user's OS and data - I've seen there's an Armbian patch to be able to boot from the NVMe that is stable, which is an excellent good thing.

 

What I hope is Armbian will make something using all possibilities of the T6 because it seems much easier to pack an image by yourself than with FE tools (and scarcity of docs).

 

BTW do you know if the regular U-Boot configuration used by Armbian images allow booting from the network ?

[Dantes]

@Jiff

You can check it with this:
 

# dd if=/dev/mmcblk2 bs=16M count=1 | strings | grep -i tftp

 

You will get output that looks something like this:

 

tftp
## TFTP bootm %s at %s size 0x%lx
## TFTP flash %s to partititon '%s' size 0x%lx ...
TFTP server died
boot image via network using DHCP/TFTP protocol
tftpput
TFTP put command, for uploading files to a server
tftpflash
flash image via network using TFTP protocol
tftpbootm
tftpbootm aosp/uImage/FIT image via network using TFTP protocol
download image via network using TFTP protocol
boot image via network using BOOTP/TFTP protocol
get - try to retrieve a pxe file using tftp
TFTP error:
TFTP error: '%s' (%d)
TFTP %s server %pI4; our IP address is %pI4
1+0 records in
1+0 records out
16777216 bytes (17 MB, 16 MiB) copied, 0,520146 s, 32,3 MB/s

 

then its just setting up the tftp server:

https://community.arm.com/oss-platforms/w/docs/495/tftp-remote-network-kernel-using-u-boot

 

So afaict, it does, but you still have to boot into u-boot to verify if the tftp commands are working.

 

Dantes

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited August 13, 2023 by Dantes

[Jiff]

@Dantes

 

Thanks for the command, the T6 can indeed TFTP boot.

 

However the wiki page you kindly also mentioned says to give the TFTP IP address to U-Boot, which I read about, but there is 1 quirks and 2 questions :

 

* The U-Boot menu never appears on the display, it shows the FE logo, then a black screen and you're logged in, so it'll be hard to change any parm (appart displaying it's menu, I also want a longer timeout, but from what I read it is easy to solve once you stopped it before the OS boot).

 

* so how could I stop the boot to stay within the U-Boot console when I can't even see it ? - O_o some of my readings sound like a warning : does it mean it only appears on the serial console ? (If so, I'll have to dig to find how I can have access to it:/).

 

* FE use its own repo of U-Boot v2017.09 when the latest stable git is v2023.07.02, do you think there's a contraindication to use the newer one or is there a real good reason why they stay with such an old version ? - This is not window$ syndrome (always the latest version), but usually with 6 years difference, new versions work better with less bugs and more functionalities.

 

And oops, by network boot, I meant BOOTP, meaning not having to inform U-Boot about the TFTP server IP, but with the command you gave me I see it is also supported

[Dantes]

@Jiff

52 minutes ago, Jiff said:

* The U-Boot menu never appears on the display, it shows the FE logo, then a black screen and you're logged in, so it'll be hard to change any parm (appart displaying it's menu, I also want a longer timeout, but from what I read it is easy to solve once you stopped it before the OS boot).

You need to go in over serial, just plug a usb-c into the serial port of the r6s/r6c/t6 , then plug the other end into the usb-a/c into your workstation and setup screen, termux or any other terminal emulator.

 

52 minutes ago, Jiff said:

* so how could I stop the boot to stay within the U-Boot console when I can't even see it ? - O_o some of my readings sound like a warning : does it mean it only appears on the serial console ? (If so, I'll have to dig to find how I can have access to it:/).

You can't the serial connection does send and receive. You need send for the keypresses.

 

52 minutes ago, Jiff said:

* FE use its own repo of U-Boot v2017.09 when the latest stable git is v2023.07.02, do you think there's a contraindication to use the newer one or is there a real good reason why they stay with such an old version ? - This is not window$ syndrome (always the latest version), but usually with 6 years difference, new versions work better with less bugs and more functionalities.

They use legacy u-boot for stability reasons iirc. Nothing is stopping you from using the newer version. (I tested 2023.05 from OpenWRT in one of the threads and it works fine afaict.)

 

52 minutes ago, Jiff said:

And oops, by network boot, I meant BOOTP, meaning not having to inform U-Boot about the TFTP server IP, but with the command you gave me I see it is also supported

Glad to hear that, happy tinkering

 

Dantes

 

Edited August 13, 2023 by Dantes

[Jiff]

@Dantes

 

Quote

just plug a usb-c into the serial port of the r6s/r6c/t6

Oh yeah, thanks ! I could not found this information and as I do not have a serial-USB converter it would have taken at least a week to get one.

 

10 minutes ago, Dantes said:

They use legacy u-boot for stability reasons iirc. Nothing is stopping you from using the newer version. (I tested 2023.05 from OpenWRT in one of the threads and it works fine afaict.)

Ok, I'll try with a newer.

 

Thanks for your answers, I'm now entering going tinkering mode

[ct100]

Am 8.8.2023 um 18:06 schrieb Jiff:

You already have all the explanations you need to understand, although to understand them you have to get out of the tunnel of creed you build for yourself : you are confusing efficiency and power factor, the first one establishes the ratio between the SPS input current and its output (the difference from 100% being the SPS losses), the second one, the discrepancy between current and tension that supply the SPS that is the direct manifestation of its reactance.

 

Check out this picture from meanwell. Below 10% load (5W) LRS-50 efficiency is <70%. With efficiency rating VI 12v 2a wall psu you could have 85%+ at idle. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Am 9.8.2023 um 23:36 schrieb Jiff:

So it _must_ be ventilated - I will do that w/ two 12 V fans, one on top pushing the air down and one on bottom pushing the air up (to keep the NVMe at a temperature as low as possible).   Touching it, it was really cold instead of a little hot without a fan.

 

The nanopc t6 in its metal case does not need a fan. Friendlyelec tests the system from 0-70°C AMBIENT!!! Your temperatures are absolutely normal and not critical in any way.

 

 

Am 9.8.2023 um 23:36 schrieb Jiff:

to keep the NVMe at a temperature as low as possible

 

If your NVMe-drive gets hot at idle or at low load make sure it has power saving mode enabled (values in this example are for Lexar NM790 4TB):

 

(list all available Power States for the nvme drive)
> smartctl -a /dev/nvme0n1
Supported Power States
St Op     Max   Active     Idle   RL RT WL WT  Ent_Lat  Ex_Lat
 0 +     6.50W       -        -    0  0  0  0        0       0
 1 +     5.80W       -        -    1  1  1  1        0       0
 2 +     3.60W       -        -    2  2  2  2        0       0
 3 -   0.0500W       -        -    3  3  3  3     5000   10000
 4 -   0.0025W       -        -    4  4  4  4     8000   41000

(check that the nvme drive is in lowest power state at idle)
> nvme get-feature /dev/nvme0n1 -f 2 -H
get-feature:0x2 (Power Management), Current value:0x000004
        Workload Hint (WH): 0 - No Workload
        Power State   (PS): 4

(check if ASPM power saving is enabled)
> lspci -vvv | grep LnkCtl:
LnkCtl: ASPM L1 Enabled; RCB 64 bytes, Disabled- CommClk+

(if ASPM power saving is not enabled)
(only for current session)
> echo powersave > /sys/module/pcie_aspm/parameters/policy
(for permanent activation add this line to "/boot/armbianEnv.txt")
extraargs=pcie_aspm.policy=powersave

 

My Lexar NM790 4TB stays at just 7°C above ambient temperature even in the closed case without any ventilation. Under light load ~10°C above ambient.

 

 

And btw. there really should be a new thread just for nanopc t6...

 

Edited August 15, 2023 by ct100

[Jiff]

1 hour ago, ct100 said:

Below 10% load (5W) LRS-50 efficiency is <70%.

Nope, the curve starts @ 72% and I already draw more than 10% idle with one T6, plus the 512 GB Transcend NVMe who can draw up to 9 W, and anyway a second T6 will also be hooked on the same power supply plus two fans.

 

1 hour ago, ct100 said:

The nanopc t6 in its metal case does not need a fan. Friendlyelec tests the system from 0-70°C AMBIENT!!! Your temperatures are absolutely normal and not critical in any way.

Read this excellent article not especially tied to the RPi 4, written by an engineer building microprocessors, to understand why the lower the temperature it is, the best long life your computer (in fact all computers) will have : https://qengineering.eu/overclocking-the-raspberry-pi-4.html

 

So I will cool two T6 as said, with two 12 V fan delivering at least 50 m³/h each.

 

1 hour ago, ct100 said:

(check that the nvme drive is in lowest power state at idle)

You should take the time to read the smartctl output columns headers and some articles about NVMe, this power state is the maximum you will allow your NVMe to consume, needless to say the performance is inversely proportional to this power limitation level.

Edited August 15, 2023 by Jiff

[ct100]

vor 5 Stunden schrieb Jiff:

Nope, the curve starts @ 72% and I already draw more than 10% idle with one T6, plus the 512 GB Transcend NVMe who can draw up to 9 W, and anyway a second T6 will also be hooked on the same power supply plus two fans.

 

I don't care what power supply you are using. You can use a totally oversized power supply with ancient technology i don't care. I just want other people to know that your idle power numbers are not representative of what can be achieved with the nanopc t6 and other rk3588(s) boards when used with a high efficiency power supply.

 

 

vor 5 Stunden schrieb Jiff:

Read this excellent article not especially tied to the RPi 4, written by an engineer building microprocessors, to understand why the lower the temperature it is, the best long life your computer (in fact all computers) will have : https://qengineering.eu/overclocking-the-raspberry-pi-4.html

 

So I will cool two T6 as said, with two 12 V fan delivering at least 50 m³/h each.

 

He is overvolting the RPi in this article. And yes that will potentially reduce the life time of the soc. But does it matter if you reduce it from 30 years to 15 years when you replace the system after 5-10 years anyway?

 

I will repeat it again. Temperatures of 50-60°C are absolutely not critical for any cpu, gpu or soc. There is also no need to overclock or overvolt the nanopc t6.

 

A fan is ___NOT___ needed for the nanopc t6 in the metal cnc case.

 

vor 5 Stunden schrieb Jiff:

You should take the time to read the smartctl output columns headers and some articles about NVMe, this power state is the maximum you will allow your NVMe to consume, needless to say the performance is inversely proportional to this power limitation level.

 

This is not a power limitation for the drive. The drive can move freely between these states. The drive decides this automatically based on the time it is in idle. Here is a table where you can see what time it takes to switch to a different state (values again for Lexar NM790 4TB):

 

> nvme get-feature /dev/nvme0n1 -f 0x0c -H
get-feature:0xc (Autonomous Power State Transition), Current value:0x000001
        Autonomous Power State Transition Enable (APSTE): Enabled
        Auto PST Entries        .................
        Entry[ 0]
        .................
        Idle Time Prior to Transition (ITPT): 750 ms
        Idle Transition Power State   (ITPS): 3
        .................
        Entry[ 1]
        .................
        Idle Time Prior to Transition (ITPT): 750 ms
        Idle Transition Power State   (ITPS): 3
        .................
        Entry[ 2]
        .................
        Idle Time Prior to Transition (ITPT): 750 ms
        Idle Transition Power State   (ITPS): 3
        .................
        Entry[ 3]
        .................
        Idle Time Prior to Transition (ITPT): 2450 ms
        Idle Transition Power State   (ITPS): 4
        .................
        Entry[ 4]
        .................
        Idle Time Prior to Transition (ITPT): 0 ms
        Idle Transition Power State   (ITPS): 0

 

When copying a large file to the drive it automatically transitions to power state 0:

> nvme get-feature /dev/nvme0n1 -f 2 -H
get-feature:0x2 (Power Management), Current value:00000000
        Workload Hint (WH): 0 - No Workload
        Power State   (PS): 0

 

Edited August 15, 2023 by ct100

[Dantes]

@Jiff

 

Just curious, do you have the original case or did you make one yourself ?

[Jiff]

@Dantes

 

The original case.

 

I'm planning another use as a busy cluster for some T6, in which case I'll ditch the case and use new ice towers from 52PI to keep them really cool.