tkaiser Posted August 22, 2018 Share Posted August 22, 2018 The company behind the Geekbox (my only SBC I still never booted ) in the meantime more known for their Amlogic Vim/Vim2 boards also joins the RK3399 bandwagon with a concept similar to Geekbox. A core module to be combined with a carrier board: Since it's just another RK3399 design Armbian support later is likely. More info: https://www.cnx-software.com/2018/07/24/khadas-edge-rk3399-single-board-computer-system-on-module/ https://docs.khadas.com/edge/ https://forum.khadas.com/t/indiegogo-campaign-edge-developer-samples/2789 Khadas guys seem to hate the idea of appropriate heat dissipation so most probably this will be the slowest RK3399 device around (where's the huge heatsink that's needed to prevent throttling?) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TonyMac32 Posted August 22, 2018 Share Posted August 22, 2018 My VIM has no heat sink and no space for one. Seems they do enjoy roasting marshmallows on the processors. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hjc Posted August 22, 2018 Share Posted August 22, 2018 There are already too many RK3399 boards these days, however most of them are lacking of distinguishing features. These boards are basically a dev kit and suitable for those who develop solutions (e.g. IoT stuff) on Rockchip platform, but not for general purpose daily uses. Still, what interest me most are those who made it small (NanoPi M4/NEO4) or cheap (RockPro64, quite suitable for building a cluster). BTW, Khadas Edge do have something different: it offers AP6398S which supports BT 5.0 (though still connected via UART), instead of AP6356S. But that does not make much sense for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NicoD Posted August 22, 2018 Share Posted August 22, 2018 Not really a single board computer is it? I don't understand this design. The core module has usb and hdmi ports. Other peripherals on the carrier board. Why? Don't see any pcie ,m.2 or sata. And indeed no heat sink holes. Who has come up with this design, and why? I can't see a benefit here. I'm wondering what this will cost. Cheers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisf Posted August 23, 2018 Share Posted August 23, 2018 Looks like they want someone to pay their wages for a while via an Indigogo campaign Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gouwa Posted August 23, 2018 Share Posted August 23, 2018 22 hours ago, TonyMac32 said: My VIM has no heat sink and no space for one. Seems they do enjoy roasting marshmallows on the processors. You can found Android both 7.1 and 8.0 ROM on Khadas Download: https://dl.khadas.com/Firmware/VIM1/ And the VIMs heatsink and cooling fan are available at Khadas Shop: https://www.khadas.com/shop Good day! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gouwa Posted August 23, 2018 Share Posted August 23, 2018 21 hours ago, NicoD said: Not really a single board computer is it? I don't understand this design. The core module has usb and hdmi ports. Other peripherals on the carrier board. Why? Don't see any pcie ,m.2 or sata. And indeed no heat sink holes. Who has come up with this design, and why? I can't see a benefit here. I'm wondering what this will cost. Cheers There are four M.2 holes designed to mount the heatsink, two close to USB port, and the other two close to the gold fingers :) Actually, we designed the heatsink as the enclosure and same with VIMs heatsink it support to mount a cooling fan on it. the M.2/PCIE is on the bottom of the Captain carrier board. More details will be update on Khadas Webiste soon. Have fun! 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
balbes150 Posted August 23, 2018 Share Posted August 23, 2018 On 8/22/2018 at 10:47 AM, tkaiser said: (where's the huge heatsink that's needed to prevent throttling Big radiator != proper cooling system. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TonyMac32 Posted August 23, 2018 Share Posted August 23, 2018 38 minutes ago, balbes150 said: Big radiator != proper cooling system. While that's true, noisy little fan is not either in most consumer products, I'd rather not hear my media player humming in the corner while watching movies. Large dissipative plate works, load managing works, etc. The point is, for a Linux desktop (dynamic unmanaged load) heat sink of some variety is mandatory, in the box, from factory. Quite honestly I was surprised that some sort of dissipative cooling strategy was not implemented on all VIM's as sold, not only as an additional purchase later in the small space. Otherwise I am quite pleased with the hardware, it is very nice. 2 hours ago, Gouwa said: There are four M.2 holes designed to mount the heatsink, two close to USB port, and the other two close to the gold fingers Excellent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
balbes150 Posted August 24, 2018 Share Posted August 24, 2018 15 hours ago, TonyMac32 said: While that's true, noisy little fan is not either in most consumer products, I'd rather not hear my media player humming in the corner while watching movies. Large dissipative plate works, load managing works, etc. The point is, for a Linux desktop (dynamic unmanaged load) heat sink of some variety is mandatory, in the box, from factory. Quite honestly I was surprised that some sort of dissipative cooling strategy was not implemented on all VIM's as sold, not only as an additional purchase later in the small space. Otherwise I am quite pleased with the hardware, it is very nice. There are a great number of options for using the equipment. It is not possible to create a universal option that will suit everyone. I know a lot of examples when they buy VIM and use their cooling system, absolutely not similar to the existing options. If the factory to complete all VIM\VIM2 specific cooling system, it will make all customers pay for what they do not need and spend time on dismantling. IMHO I would recommend Khadas to expand the product line for end users and release several ready-made options. 1. One Board, without radiator and other elements. 2. Board with installed radiator without housing. 3. Full version, Board with installed radiator, fan, in the case, and complete with power supply and remote control. I have some VIM uses its own sets of radiator+fan that is inaudible during operation. Passive cooling system has a number of serious drawbacks and can be used only in cases when it is really necessary for technical conditions. Just for Linux should be used circuit radiator+fan (ideally, with automatic control). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tkaiser Posted August 24, 2018 Author Share Posted August 24, 2018 2 hours ago, balbes150 said: Passive cooling system has a number of serious drawbacks This just works (on RockPro64 -- I did the testing already of course): 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
balbes150 Posted August 29, 2018 Share Posted August 29, 2018 On 8/24/2018 at 11:53 AM, tkaiser said: This just works (on RockPro64 -- I did the testing already of course): Your results with passive cooling have shown that this option is not suitable for serious loads. After only 20 minutes of not full load, the difference between the passive option and the option with a minimum air supply gave 35 degrees of difference. At the first stage of the cooling system, a massive metal part (radiator) did not work as a radiator, but as a damper (drive). This is a significant difference. You did not specify the ambient temperature (air) in the room during the test. Not specified placement of equipment (housing, or free placement on the free surface of the table, etc.), all these nuances can affect the results. By the way, the shape of the radiator in the form of a cube, the most effective for passive mode. This form of radiator is designed for use with a fan (which is usually placed on the top side of the radiator, as on processors on a PC). Another disadvantage is that only two mounting points are used for a massive part. If you try to use the Board in a vertical position and with dynamic loads, there is a risk of not full contact with the chip surface. And if you use adhesive pads, there is a risk of detachment of the chip from the contact pads of the Board. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tkaiser Posted August 30, 2018 Author Share Posted August 30, 2018 On 8/29/2018 at 3:05 PM, balbes150 said: Your results with passive cooling have shown that this option is not suitable for serious loads. Unfortunately I have not the slightest idea what you're talking about. My goal is to avoid shitty fans and fansinks and if boardmakers start to improve this is possible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tkaiser Posted September 22, 2018 Author Share Posted September 22, 2018 Retail prices have been disclosed so we can close this chapter now: https://www.khadas.com/blog/indiegogo-rk3399-sbc-edge-pricing-announcement USB-C compliant powering means you need a real USB PD compliant charger and since heat dissipation is an issue with RK3399 then you also need to spend additional +20 bucks on their fansink to keep the board cool. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
botfap Posted September 22, 2018 Share Posted September 22, 2018 That seems very expensive, it’s clearly designed as a dev platform and not for general use so from that perspective it’s maybe not too bad IoT companies like ours might see it as a nice dev platform (but we can getter better for cheaper already). I’m not sure it has the right price or form factor to see any production use and therefore enough sales to pay for itself and be a long term option Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tkaiser Posted September 23, 2018 Author Share Posted September 23, 2018 On 9/22/2018 at 2:48 PM, botfap said: it’s clearly designed as a dev platform and not for general use With Edge+Captain I would agree. But then Khadas realized that they need something like Edge-V in Vim/Vim2 form factor for end users. Still the necessary accessories to reliably power the board (fully USB PD compliant USB-C charger) and to provide proper heat dissipation are IMO way too expensive. I don't want to spend ~60 bucks for PSU + fansink and then pay an additional 110 bucks for an RK3399 design with just 2 GB RAM. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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