divode
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Posts posted by divode
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Could very well be my testing equipment is a bit flawed, but here are my results using the armbian server build and my PSU
Idle: 5.12V 0.25 A 1,322Wstress --cpu 4 (high load): 5.11V 0.56 A 2,880W -
Armbian on My 1080p TV defaulted to 720p . But was over-scanning my TV has no way to adjust the screen. On my Android TV Box (Minix H6) the android set up software has a ability to reduce the size of the screen to fit the view-able area.
Finally got the time to try out my OPi PC so I also hooked it up to my 1080p 50" TV as I had no other monitors available and no powered HDMI-to-VGA/DVI adapter to use my spare screens. It defaulted to 720p and was overscanned, but easily solved by setting to 1080p60 through h3disp. Should be something that you can adjust like you say, but not in h3disp? I don't recommend running 720p on 50" though.
As for the headline use, was wondering if I should put it aside until mainline patches go through (if they ever?) or just go with it now. The poor old 600 MHz 1-core ARMv6 is starting to fail on me and needs to be replaced soon, and I do not think there is much more than apt-get update;apt-get upgrade to update it once it goes through since I use armbian? May be it was set to only be legacy.
I did not get an IKEA PSU, but an Andersson one rated 2.1A using the barrel plug to USB they sell in the official bundle (hopefully these are good cables), it should handle good output and if it doesn't I finally ordered a KCX-045 voltmeter. The main thing I want to make sure of before I test it out and attempt a underclocked setup like yours is that it will not have the potential to damage the board when vcore/board receive lower voltage? I know overclocking (increased voltage) on hardware can damage components-or at least decrease their lifetime, but hardly ever used undervolt. The settings that came with armbian seemed pretty decent, and might not need much tweaking if I install the server-only version (might as well edit it too ifs high). If I connect USB's that do not draw power (external power like for example HDD docking) or use the audio jack that probably won't need much change from your example. Since the PSU is rated at 5V it may affect decide to behave funny when used too much below 5V? Or maybe I've misunderstood how these bricks work, better wait for my voltmeter to arrive. I'll look through what was already written about that. I'll read-read what you wrote and try to fine-tune it, thanks a lot for that by the way I feel like I have been pretty ignorant (&probably still is).
Last thing I wanted to talk about while I was at it, was thinking of having it play audio just for the sake of it. I adjusted up the volume of "audiocodec" in alsamixer, assuming that's the audio jack. But somehow the whole board crashed/froze with an error code when I attempted to play music with mpd. May be the output is set to HDMI even though the HDMI was disconnected or just a completely random fail. Another thing was that I heard you tell over IRC that the integrated PHY was bad for mainline, does that mean I should be wary about it's performance if I switch from legacy or was I misinterpreting?
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I just read some of the text above about POWER SUPPLY.
Basically you can get from China devices like iPhone and Galaxy S7 - means they can really make high quality.
I have Power Supplies for years plugged in without any problems.
The more efficient it is designed, the less it will get warm. IKEA has a nice one with 3 USB-plugs, around € 9.- and with Amps up to 2,5 or 3.
If a housing is bigger or smaller can also depend on the technic used, if it works only with 230 Volt or only 120 Volt most probably it has coil to transform the voltage.
If if can handle from 100 - 240 Volt it might use the newer technic which has its pro and cons.
The ones with coil are usually heavier and bigger.
Interesting, so the IKEA ones are good then? I don't get why they use three USB ports with limited ampere, but considering the Andersson one I am looking at costs 4 euros more and have less ampere with one port I might give it a try if you claim there is no drops/used it for long.
Yeah, I have some which are bigger and others which are most smaller but seemingly rated the exact same. I believe the bigger one heats much less than the smaller PSU, but that might just be that the bigger one has more surface to spread it with or draws less amperage in it's use case. Which was why I wondered if I could check the voltage on the USB prots which I think are supposed to be at 5V to look for voltage drops when I test different PSUs. I do not know where you can order these, but surely they are sold somewhere. As far as I can see this is the only way to measure it unless I can use a voltmeter and point them to the circuits on the board or the DC-IN.
And even then people will try it with phone chargers, crappy old USB cables lying around and order this 'genuine Kingston' SD card on aliexpress for a third of the usual price to ensure they get a counterfeit card.
Good one. I believe it is very hard to see they are fakes as you have no way to know which flash chip is inside without physically opening it.The rule is you simply do not order any storage on Chinese sites, you should always order them on local stores (even Amazon can in some cases sell fakes).If you do open it may also be the same flash memory, just the controller could be a cheap one which doesn't do as good a job. I have actually seen good Chinese cards using Samsung memory and some cheap China controller, search for mixza and sort by order number to find these. Not that I have fully tested it yet, it was just for storing music on for a small MP3 player and I didn't need any expensive brand card for that. When i transferred files with a USB 2.0 adapter it got 12 megabyte/s, they looked pretty serious and had a verification code on it and everything. Again can't say could be memory that doesn't handle many writes and starts failing after a while. Sorry for going off-topic, just a mention.
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The most important thing regarding PSU amperage ratings is mostly misunderstood: Voltage drops when consumption increases (see this nice example and especially the footnote regarding Micro USB fortunately avoided with all Orange Pis). Most Orange Pi PC components work still if DC-IN drops to 4.5V but both HDMI and USB peripherals do not tolerate voltage drops below ~4.8V so get a PSU that can handle this.
BTW: The best variant to run in all sorts of annoying troubles is to use both a crappy PSU and a crappy SD card. This will ensure the worst user experience ever
interesting. I have noticed that even though they are USB supplies and deliver the same volt/amperage the mobile one is far smaller than the bigger one I use to power development boards with. With this PSU I've never had any problems, but then again it was bought specifically for this purpose. Judging by the seemingly much smaller size I can just guess that the voltage is going to drop if I attempt to use it going by what you are saying. Perhaps I should buy one of those USB voltage meters for development boards (not a car one since I won't be able to hook that up to the PSU) and look for the voltage there? I have a wide range of PSUs for example from Andersson, Google (1A5V the new Chromecast model), phone companies that I'm not sure how they would act in the long run.
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Or even cheaper - buy cheap 5V/2A power supply with 2.5/0.7mm connector (or 5.5 - they are also cheap). It costed me $1 shipped from China. I've just cut the connector and soldered so called "dupont" connectors to attached directly to pin 4 and 6. Works perfectly.
If you plan on running 24/7 using a cheap Chinese power brick sounds to me like asking for a housefire. It may cost more for the USB PSU than what the device costs, but you can order just the OPi with the barrel plug bundle and then use a branded power supply you have lying around. I would say the 2A might not be all that necessary, if you do like the guide and remove the overclocking and don't stuff the USB ports you can probably do it with less amperage. I have a small branded one that does 1.75 Ampere which I plan on using with the OPi PC, but not that sure about that yet.
I would not trust the one they have in that bundle though, it looks like they probably printed on the certifications, not that I can say much about that.
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If Steven would produce a variant with an external PHY (RTL8211 -- not that expensive) and optional 2 GB RAM that would be the most interesting H3 based board -- at least for me. Since the only other board with these 2 features (the Orange Pi Plus 2) has less available I/O bandwidth (due to a wasted USB port for the ultra-slow GL830 USB-to-SATA bridge) and a useless WiFi module (maybe never supported by mainline kernel). I would believe Xunlong could sell such an OPi PC Plus without all the useless stuff and solely adding GBit Ethernet and an additional GB RAM for $20 if they're able to sell an upcoming Orange Pi One for less than $10 also.
BTW: Since a few days an SMP 'hack' is available for Orange Pi PC therefore all 4 CPU cores are already useable: http://pastebin.com/Vj9JYPTn(this is 'fritz' from the orangepi.org forums running his own kernel with Arch Linux)
He might not see those upgrades you are talking about, come on the people sells a poorly overclocked device which looks like it's mainly meant to just get money from but he will see the high sales number for Orange Pi PC, I hope he gets what people want from that
(Currently over 5000 orders for only the PC device on the official AliExpress store)
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That's +114 MB/s sequential read throughput with just one single CPU core running at 1008 MHz and the kernel being able to utilise UASP
This looks really promising using H3 based devices for NAS purposes with mainline kernel since when SMP is working and we're able to adjust clockspeeds up to 1296 MHz again there's enough horsepower left even with 4 disks connected to use btrfs compression and stuff like that.Yeah, that sounds pretty good.
Too bad this device has the bottleneck of 100Mbps NIC, but it doesn't mean it's bad nonetheless. I just get a feeling they could have upgraded it for not much extra charge since other boards got gigabit NIC with Allwinner like the Plus version.
If maineline comes with the crypto engine I'll definitely buy this board and give it a try. I would have liked people to release images with proper dvfs and throttle settings (people are actually running it with the Xulong ones?)
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So i think I'll just go for the 23 dollars pack since mainline support looks promising and the test image is a good sign that this board will get support.
I was just thinking the Transparent ABS Case might be a poor choice as the thermal tests on sunxi are probably with the board exposed to the air without any case over it. It has two air outlets on the top but it would probably heat more nonetheless. I have attempted to find a heatsink for it on old components but surprisingly I wasn't able to find one, and I've run out of thermal pads so I would probably put it straight on. If you know a good one I could use for this purpose would you link me up to one? (A ton of them sells of varying price and quality). I can probably rob the one my RPi uses as I doubt it needs it anyway for what it's doing right now, at least as a start. See http://g01.a.alicdn.com/kf/UT8z9hgXttbXXagOFbXP.jpg The holes at the top are obviously meant so that the GPIO pins can go out of the case.
One thing I didn't think about first is indeed a problem I've had with the RPi, that it's able to actually provide power to whatever USB devices attached to it This was not the case of MicroUSB and I've actually had to provide power to whatever I'm connecting that needs high power through a powered USB hub which can even backpower some boards. The first experience I had was that it powered down to prevent damage when I attached a USB network card, which was pretty much when I learned that it's indeed not providing enough power. I guess with this device some of those problems might be solved. But now that i have most of my stuff secured with external power and the USB HDD I will be connecting already has power so I won't need the HDMI nor USB to be able to draw much power.
Either way, judging from what you said it should be able to run without heatsink once the dvfs/thermal settings are fixed, I could always just leave the case unused too if it doesn't work out. Sorry for again asking dumb questions nut I still don't know that much. if I supply power through barrel plug, which I usually assume provides the same current to the device, why is it possible to adjust the values and the power supply will give less power and not provide the same building up more heat? Is is automatically able to adjust somehow, which I think newer chargers etc does so that the battery for instance in phones doesn't get excessive heat once it's fully charged which might damage it. I guess this is probably it, some kind of regulating built-in. Probably the same principle as a PC PSU where components vary.
Asking since their cable is 5V3A and since it doesn't need to power anything external it would probably work with 5V1A or more like you said, and I could increase it if I attach lets say a Wi-Fi card, which might be possible in the future once it gets mainline (my wi-fi cards driver got into kernel 4 without need to make)
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Latest statement from the company. I just felt like some might want to know how they plan on giving people OS support... This thread and their forum at for example http://forum.pine64.org/showthread.php?tid=55&pid=300#pid300 being how they contact them I assume? It's fun to see they haven't gotten this far while putting up quotes from the media such as the board being good for high resolution video etc... I hope nobody orders this hoping to have hardware acceleration supported on their 4K video.
PINE64 Inc. says:
Hello,
We are currently collaborate with several Linux developers on various Linux OS porting. Whether which Linux OS will be maintain and prosperous, this highly depending on open community effort. The NIC connected to dedicated MII bus, not sharing with USB bus bandwidth. You cannot simply upgrade from 100Mbps NIC to gigabit NIC, you can only buy the A64 version with 10/100 or buy the A64+ with Gigibit.The Ethernet PHY is from Realtek which is commonly use by SBC community, this is no “locked down†situation,
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Looks too small. But it would fit for an ODROID-C1+ (also a good choice, you can clock the S805 with up to 1.7 GHz and no need for a fan -- see the LeMaker review for comparisons).
Regarding Allwinner's A64 everything is speculation right now. But it's clear that this chip is probably the definition of 'low-end 64 bit'. The upcoming Amlogic S912 looks a lot more interesting (also only Cortex-A53 but up to 4 GB RAM and USB 3.0). But for most use cases an H3 board with GBit Ethernet and optional 2GB RAM would also suffice.
Sold out
Oh well, I could just buy a charger too. Just make sure to not get a unsafe one. OPi sells a package with a USB cable and case on the PC for $20 but I doubt I can just enter a MicroUSB charger on that USB part so I can pick the $23 one for that. I guess that works out. Fun part is that with charger and plastic case it would be half of what the board cost. But that's okay. Both the Pine and the H3 goes for the same then in the end. I won't be ordering these before Christmas so you might have gotten around to testing it before then.Problem with the hardkernel is that the shipping is high enough cost for our duty to take their fees which will make it cost 68.5 dollars with shipping if I order the ODROID-C1+, something I don't really want to spend on it. Call me greedy if you want
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The A64 might be a bit faster than the H3 (slow Cortex-A7 vs. slow Cortex-A53, both made in an inexpensive 28nm process) but you would need to run an OS on it that makes use of the ARMv8 instruction set (arm64 architecture and not armhf in 'Armbian terms'). The whole '64 bit' thing is more or less marketing since with 64 bit you might be able to address a huge virtual address space but are limited to 2 GB physical RAM with the A64 anyway (same with H3).
And by looking into preliminary material from the Pine64 people I would suspect the A64 is prone to overheating. We will see, they shipped a board to me that's still on its way. Regarding kernel and OS support: I don't think any of the linux-sunxi developers will happily spend much time for free on the project to fulfill the Pine64 promise to be able to use a more recent kernel anytime soon (in their FAQ they said they will later support 3.18 and then 4.2 which is a clear sign that they have no idea what 'mainlining' means. Or maybe they think they can apply the 'few' patches from kernel.org to the 3.10.65 kernel they got from Allwinner to reach 3.18 or 4.x in 2016?)
Exactly what I thought. They were made for cheap Chinese devices, it's a wonder they even survive in the CPU market but I guess they sell these chips like crazy. I mean, I have had an Allwinner tablet myself some time ago and it did its job. I guess I could wait for you to test out if it overheats easily. Planning to get my packages from Debian repo or http://archlinuxarm.org/packages(armv5,6,7,8) but these are with a pinch of salt, bleeding edge and some of the packagers don't know packaging here (happened once before). As far as I know armbian doesn't run on these boards yet (but a forum user bootstraped a few different OS's). The A64 board has a gigabit Ethernet though, which OPi also has in Plus but you get other crap on the board I don't need such as I think (USB-Sata?), NAND and Wi-Fi. I see no reason the cheap OPi which was overclocked to hell should be overheating less than their board. Unless they designed it with extreme heat in mind to make it able to OC this much (which makes sense).
On the other hand the H3 is probably cheaper as the shipping charges they had were absolutely horrendous (a little better to America). You know something is up when the shipping is about to cost more than the item. Either way, if they run at the same-ish clock speed and can use its full 100 Megabit/s NIC without being routed on one USB like RPi then it should be able to fit my 50 Megabit/s demand, combined with the 5400RPM HDD I plan on using on the USB port: it's probably not worth picking A64 over H3 it for a "little" better performance, and get no mainline support - don't you agree?
As for the 2GB limit we had more on 32-bit long ago, but the per-process RAM limit still applies. So it's indeed smarter to pick 64-bit for more than 2GB in that regard. I would order the 1GB RAM version as I don't see a reason to pay 7 dollars more for something I won't have much use for unless the extra cache would help in some scenarios, which it would probably do in databases etc I'm not that familiar with that yet. But that simply means I don't need 64-bit.
So I'm a little bit uncertain in the end anyway. If it runs faster and is not prone to overheating that is. The benefit is that they are more likely to not have overvolted and overclocked it like crazy like OPi, and if everything go south and I have to make use of a proper 24/7 non-ARM for my project I could use Lollipop on it so it might have video acceleration and work with streaming video since Allwinner got the video acceleration on Android. But I seem to recall Kodi never supported Mali on Allwinner and they just tricked them when they offered to. Wonder if this applies on Android too, hmm..
Here we go, the charger I think fits, it must be old as it has Made in P.R.C mark which they changed to China long ago? I don't really want to order some $3 charger as another user suggested as you never know if these are bad enough to catch fire or something.
http://i.imgur.com/oc2OCiY.jpg
And the black square on top of the capacitor which I was wondering what is, I kind of want to just drag it off. But it was mostly because I was curious about what that was useful for at all.
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They do. The best place to look regarding new boards is here: http://linux-sunxi.org/Mainlining_Effort#Planned_for_4.5
So the Pine I wanted to buy is even more off-limits due to the support not being guaranteed at all, despite the sellers trying to market it as getting mainline in the future (which might happen after some time, uhh, months? Years?)
I have been thinking about buying the Orange Pi PC, so if the H3 gets mainline, the settings for changing to correct voltage and crypto support gets in place I'm sold, I only need 50 megabit/s throughput from HDD to ethernet to suffice (like I said before). As for the 64-bit 4 core CPU, which was the reason I wanted that Pine board, I think it's not necessary. At most I've been running virtual servers on 64-bit hardware under 32-bit architecture and it has been working perfectly. Allwinner probably only releases new SoCs every now and then just to leave people with no mainline and no people from any communities (linux-sunxi) willing to dedicated a lot of their free time (let's be honest, would you?) to start mainlining all their SoCs. And is there much benefit with their new "super-chip" over the H3 at all? Probably not. We all know what happened when Snapdragon when they tried to rush 64-bit too... That gives them even less reason to dedicate their effort towards supporting it.
Now I have found something I think could fit as power supply, I just roughly measured 0.3cm as diameter so I think it's right. Also found myself old Samsung satellite receiver where I am just going to throw out the insides and place the board inside. If it's too big, which I assume it's waaay to big for the board I have a 3com modem case too. Why? Well, I guess I like having things inside cases and not wide-open. There was one thing I haven't seen before though, there was some kind of black square that was attached to the metal on the inside over the biggest Samsung capacitors I've seen in my life. Guessing it might be to isolate something. Any ideas?
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I would like to thank you for the information and I have always considered the USB hub setup RPi has a potential bottleneck. I will see what I end up with after a while. One thing is the PSU which is obviously going to add an additional cost to the whole thing. MicroUSB is easy to get but the H3 needs a 5V2A (maybe i have one of these lying around, very tiny DC connector side) but wasn't that overkill if you didn't need to overvolt it to run their falsely advertised clock speed? Or maybe I am mistaking this and the MicroUSB cables I've been using could potentially undervolt it. Although the RPi is designed to run at low power so that's probably correct use. I have also considered the A64 which Pine is creating, but judging by the thread here they have no idea what they are doing software-wise except with the Android SDK. They seem to be lying about the GPU capabilities as they are unarchiveable in Linux since it's Allwinner but it's not as bad as Orange Pi is lying about the operating frequency. For the moment it seems that the community around Orange Pi and the work linux-sunxi is doing with it with people in the forum bootstrapping a ton of OS on its kernel makes the Orange Pi PC the best choice for me at the moment. I'll go see if I can find my charger and if I can save myself some money that way.
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The advertisement in his store mentions "banana pi pro raspberry pi 2 cubieboard pcduino" to attract people in the Aliexpress market searching for these.
He also advertises the H3 on the Orange Plus to run at 1.6 GHz... This seems rather questionable, I would like a cheap computer that can run quad-core at around 1 GHz with 1 GB of RAM. Why did they have to lie this much, they didn't have to lie and mess up the whole board like this did they? I looked at RPi 2 which is probably the safest bet but it comes at the price of 46 USD here so I can't help but wanting something like the Orange Pi or Pine A64 anyway.
Just please tell me to my senses and buy a RPi 2 before I get an Allwinner with horrible kernel support. I don't need better transfer than 50 Megabit/s (which is the line capacity) on the NIC, so if I can push out through an external USB 2.0 HDD to the NIC with encryption at this rate I'll be happy with the board. My current RPi 1 (700 MHz ARMv6 Single Core) does 1.5 Megabyte/s in this regard without overclocking, which is not good enough at all. I also recall they have the NIC on the USB hub too. It probably largely depends on extensions and what kind of encryption I use, a friend of mine recommended me to use RC4 if I was planning to use VPN software on it. It of course can handle download/upload without encryption at appropriate rates, but I do sftp and SSL on NGINX. Maybe I should just dump encryption altogether?
Quick review of Orange Pi PC
in Reviews, Tutorials, Hardware hacks
Posted
Was not to sure about how much I can trust that command put max load on the device, but seeing how much current it was drawing it should be safe to power this device with my even lower Google ITE 1A supply. I am not too sure how calibrated my USB multimeter was, so I was planning on getting a regular voltmeter and checking DC-IN directly. But today I checked with that Google PSU on another device just to use my USB voltmeter for something. It was pulling 5.04V (flickers to 5,06) 0.39 A 2W which makes me believe that this PSU delivers slightly lower voltage? Does that 0.08 voltage different mean anything for the board itself in the long run? I was just curious due to your past mentions about voltage drops after higher power draw, while these seem to keep a stable just slightly small different voltages.