Implement Request For Comment (RFC)

[KREYREN]

Writing code for armbian is currently pain and suffering, because the code quality is horrible and it always makes me do changes alike https://github.com/Kreyren/armbian-build-kreyren/compare/6cd581c96c0b7b800b6549afe23112d4a662d2a0..811288169004dccacab964129ecaf8cfe891b22d that waste time just to get the contribution to work reliably, thus proposing to take an inspiration for how other projects such as nixos handle this issue and implement a RFC: https://github.com/NixOS/rfcs

Which is a repository filled with directives that are to be followed during development to unite the coding style through brainstorm and logical rationale

Additionally this RFC can then be taken as an industry standard for scripting in bash/shell

Edited September 9, 2023 by Kreyren

[KREYREN]

Referenced in https://github.com/armbian/build/pull/5689

[Igor]

On 9/9/2023 at 2:19 AM, KREYREN said:

Writing code for armbian is currently pain and suffering

 

This is expected for this world. We primarily deal with hard problems & development is pain and suffering. Coding style does not have any significant impact on what you are mentioning. We are not responsible if bringing up some weird proprietary device is a collection of hacks. Rather focus in reverse engineering so hacks won't be needed. Yes, that will be very hard too, but nobody is forcing you to do this. Armbian don't need this, but if you want to submit a PR to Armbian, you need to adopt to our coding & writing style as its insulting to expect project will adopt to yours even you are on "industry standard" quality BASH porn.

Once again as you don't get it - code is liability first and its not on author to self decide if it can be classified as a project asset. Regardless of your idea, education or manipulation used to get attention.

 

On 9/9/2023 at 2:19 AM, KREYREN said:

proposing to take an inspiration for how other projects

 

We are not on their level, they are not on ours. Every project is unique and always has different set of problems addressed by limited resources. I see you don't even try to understand any of. 

 

Copy / pasting or suggesting principles is simple, while implementing and keeping them function is completely different level. This whole "suggestions" forum has ideas that needs millions to finance, while we only receive about 0.5% of compensation for what we do without including your suggestions. For completing requests projects would need many additional project leaders and many additional staff to start leading them ... But you don't care about that small problem, you just want perfection to be done at once and you demand we pay for it with money we don't have. Hear how stupid all this sounds.
 

Perhaps this visual representation will help you to understand where your idea is - there are at least this many people with good intentions as you can see on this picture (alongside with those blurred ones) that wants to enforce their ideas or extract some value (hey, please fix this!) without giving anything in return. As you can see its crowded and there is very small listening or executing capacity.

 

Spoiler

 

It will take some time before your idea came from the last in the line to the place where that idea could be heard. Please don't shout over other people as you are doing now - stop reaching out to people that keeps this place together several times per day. It is impolite and has to be sanctioned because of other people that stay in the line trying to help or cheer us. Contribution to open source projects starts when you understand its needs not about you having fun with what we are providing. Or not having it.
 

On 9/9/2023 at 2:19 AM, KREYREN said:

can then be taken as an industry standard for scripting in bash/shell

 

We have our own coding style. It is not the best, its not the worse, but its ours. If you are opening a PR to the project, you simply need to met those requirements. If you don't respect that, you can work on fork whatever you want. This is how open source projects function. 

[KREYREN]

30 minutes ago, Igor said:

This is expected for this world. We primarily deal with hard problems & development is pain and suffering. Coding style does not have any significant impact on what you are mentioning. We are not responsible if bringing up some weird proprietary device is a collection of hacks. Rather focus in reverse engineering so hacks won't be needed. Yes, that will be very hard too, but nobody is forcing you to do this. Armbian don't need this, but if you want to submit a PR to Armbian, you need to adopt to our coding & writing style as its insulting to expect project will adopt to yours even you are on "industry standard" quality BASH porn.

 

I don't work on proprietary devices i do OSHW-only so that ain't my problem, the problem is that over 70% of development is trying to decypher what the code does and why, because it in super-majority lacks explanations and abstracting or is doing the implementation in a really weird and messed up way take a look at ./lib/functions//compilation/uboot.sh for example that's something that could be defined under 100 lines, but instead we do a 450+ line of code that is overcomplicated and took me hours to abstract and work with it ideally i want to agree on a standard so that it can be rewritten, but when i submit it in the objectively significantly more readable, reliable, safer and functional way, but you will just complain about it and refuse to discuss it.

 

38 minutes ago, Igor said:

We are not on their level, they are not on ours. Every project is unique and always has different set of problems addressed by limited resources. I see you don't even try to understand any of. 

 

[functionality wise we are further than the other projects you even promote that in the readme](https://github.com/armbian/build#compared-with-industry-standards). I am not here to just argue and complain i want to work on fixing it and i want to discuss the changes and agree on a better standard so that it's not like with guix where i submit contributions that i invest lot of time and effort into only for other contributors to think that they know better and mess them up to the point where i have to migrate on nixos, bcs the OS became a liability.

 

42 minutes ago, Igor said:

Copy / pasting or suggesting principles is simple, while implementing and keeping them function is completely different level. This whole "suggestions" forum has ideas that needs millions to finance, while we only receive about 0.5% of compensation for what we do without including your suggestions.

 

So you are aware of the funding difficulties, yet you decide that removing a small and short sentence from the bottom of my merge requests which is not included in the git log where people give me donations which enable me to sustainably work on armbian and giving it the care it needs is a great idea..

 

47 minutes ago, Igor said:

For completing requests projects would need many additional project leaders and many additional staff to start leading them ... But you don't care about that small problem, you just want perfection to be done at once and you demand we pay for it with money we don't have. Hear how stupid all this sounds.

I keep feeling like you have lot of experience in proprietary development and keep trying to use that as a good idea for open-source where is terrible malpractice.. I don't need additional project leaders i have my developer team that i work with on stuff that is over my head if needs be and i proposed you to adding me to relevant code owners so that you don't have to review all the stuff and if i break something then i do my best to fix it asap if you don't trust me then we have people who can do reviews if you feel like reviewing merge requests where i do my best to be easy to review and understandable through making the code as readable as possible and documenting it is too expensive then provide the calculations i try to cover the cost of the reviewing or ask my supporters to help.

 

52 minutes ago, Igor said:

It will take some time before your idea came from the last in the line to the place where that idea could be heard. Please don't shout over other people as you are doing now - stop reaching out to people that keeps this place together several times per day. It is impolite and has to be sanctioned because of other people that stay in the line trying to help or cheer us. Contribution to open source projects starts when you understand its needs not about you having fun with what we are providing. Or not having it.

 

Using your visualization the sooner you address the code quality issues the less of a work it will be to deal with so in this case grabing a megaphone and screaming to get priority is a really really good idea

Namely:

I provided a vscode configuration that enables to capture the issues on the developer-side prior to merge in https://github.com/armbian/build/pull/5691 sooner you merge it sooner it's able to capture major issues and bugs that the QA system might miss, refer to dr. reason's swiss cheese model for rationale:

 

 

54 minutes ago, Igor said:

We have our own coding style. It is not the best, its not the worse, but its ours. If you are opening a PR to the project, you simply need to met those requirements. If you don't respect that, you can work on fork whatever you want. This is how open source projects function. 

 

it doesn't feel like we have any, people do whatever they want in most of the script files without enforcement which is why we are in this situation and i do my best to adjust the code for it whenever i can, but it's really painful to take good code and turn it into a worse version just to appease you and make it mergable

[KREYREN]

Just to clarify i don't mean to be rude, but i also don't want to censor myself as i prefer to be honest.. this is submitted in a good faith with the hope to address what i see as a serious issue in the code base.

And i am not the guy who just screams about issues and expect them to be solved i write this because i want to work on fixing them and expect you to adjust your management so that i can do that

Edited September 10, 2023 by KREYREN

[KREYREN]

and seems that i've been banned in armbian and stripped the role on the forum for writing this.. I am happy to put my name and role in armbian on the line to address this issue, if you prefer to represent yourself as the guy who doesn't care about his project, code and code quality then i won't stop you

[Igor]

9 hours ago, KREYREN said:

what i see as a serious issue in the code base

 

There are indeed serious issues, but not in the code base. We will discuss this matter, but certainly not this year.