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Orange Pi Zero went to the market

zgoda_j

By zgoda_j
in Allwinner sunxi

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tkaiser

tkaiser

Posted
Posted

Any outline of NAS features and price? Will we be able to record one TV channel/ video stream while "watching" another?

 

No idea about anything regarding this NAS HAT yet. Also no idea why you mention TV -- there's CVBS there but why not spending the few $ more to get an Orange Pi One/Lite instead which feature HDMI?!

 

Orange Pi Zero desperately needs a heat sink.

 

Nope. Please stop spreading such wrong claims. With Armbian settings H2+ on this board remains in a good temperature range but as usual if you run constantly heavy loads some throttling will occur or you mount a heatsink. But there really is no need for one especially when you use this device as intended. Are your claims backed up by the output of 'sudo armbianmonitor -m'?

atharmian

atharmian

Posted
Posted

Oh, btw, I was emailing zhaofiyan some hours ago asking if OPi0 had a camera interface (no.) But then he said they are developing a "new version" with a camera interface undergoing testing now, perhaps ready in a month.

 

Not sure if this is s new PiO version. But at least OPi0 512MB now comes with 2MB SPI flash; 256 MB version will too in the next batch.

 

So their products keep coming...

tkaiser

tkaiser

Posted
Posted

Oh, btw, I was emailing zhaofiyan some hours ago asking if OPi0 had a camera interface (no.) But then he said they are developing a "new version" with a camera interface undergoing testing now, perhaps ready in a month.

 

Yes, this new version will most probably target the market for NanoPi Air now. Equipped with H5, eMMC, AP6212 (WiFi/BT -- same as on NanoPi Air), 512 MB DRAM and Xunlong's 24 pin camera connector. I still hope for another H5 based Zero variant implementing Gigabit Ethernet since that would make the NAS HAT really useful. On the other hand using this new 'Zero Plus 2' with one DSI camera and 2 USB cameras the NAS HAT seems also useful.

chrisd

chrisd

Posted
Posted

I tried to find the datasheet of the H2+ and couldn't find one. It's said to be essentially a H3 - some features.

 

Does anybody know if it still has a I2S/PCM? It would like to connect a I2S DAC (e.g. a cheap PCM5102) and retrofit my internet radio.

sky59

sky59

Posted
Posted

I am new with Opizero, so be patient with my questions :)

 

I used already RPI with Jessie Lite linux - no users, no problems. For wifi I just added info in file wpa_supplicant.conf and it works.

 

Now I use Debian Jessie for my Opizero. It starts as root forcing me to create new user. Can this be avoided or it is different Jessie as I know for RPI ?

 

For Debian Jessie there is no file wpa_supplicant.conf in /etc/wpa_supplicant so I made it. After reboot no connection to my access point. How to set up wifi so it automatically connects to AP?

 

Can anybody generate image for people like me so I have no problems with unuseful users? Does it exist already?

tkaiser

tkaiser

Posted
Posted

Can anybody generate image for people like me so I have no problems with unuseful users? Does it exist already?

 

Sure, just use DietPi. WiFi does not work there but at least it's insecure. For details please refer to the comments below: http://tech.scargill.net/the-orange-pi-zero/

 

If you want working Wi-Fi simply use 'sudo nmtui' with your normal account and in case you want to do everything as root better choose Raspbian or DietPi and forget about Armbian (we won't support totally insecure setups)

atharmian

atharmian

Posted
Posted

tkaiser,

 

For a noob like me. What are the pros and cons of USB v CSI ribbon cams?

 

I see USBs everywhere, and with OPi0 PoE and USB ports, they make a lot of sense?

hmartin

hmartin

Posted
Posted

I see USBs everywhere, and with OPi0 PoE and USB ports, they make a lot of sense?

 

OPi Zero "PoE" is just routing the power pins to pads on the bottom of the board. You either need to solder 0 Ohm resistors across the pads and use a 5V PoE injector, or find a (more expensive) 48V to 5V step down.

 

The board as shipped cannot be powered by PoE.

 

For a noob like me. What are the pros and cons of USB v CSI ribbon cams?

 

The CSI cams will use the image processing available within the SoC, where a USB camera has to do the processing within the camera before sending encoded video over USB. CSI sensors have much more bandwidth to the SoC than USB, so if the SoC supports it, you may be able to do things with raw image data from the sensor.

atharmian

atharmian

Posted
Posted

hmartin,

 

Thanks.

 

Do you know if Armbian running on OPi has any extra processing capabilities for CSI cams vs USBs?

 

Any good link on passive PoE config? I want to know how to connect 4 cams, each with its module/ WiFi/ webserver to stream video/ audio, to a single "receiver" board via PoE. Presumably this requires a 4 port Ethernet hub/ switch with PoE injection?

hmartin

hmartin

Posted
Posted

Any good link on passive PoE config? I want to know how to connect 4 cams, each with its module/ WiFi/ webserver to stream video/ audio, to a single "receiver" board via PoE. Presumably this requires a 4 port Ethernet hub/ switch with PoE injection?

 

I don't think anyone uses hubs anymore, and honestly even if you already have a hub, I would throw it away and buy a switch instead. 100MBit switches are so cheap these days and hubs are just... terrible.

 

To inject the power:

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/Free-shipping-4-LAN-Ports-Passive-POE-adaptere-Pin-4-5-7-8-Power-Over-Ethernet/32322054334.html

 

To split the power:

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/POE-Adapter-cable-Tape-Screened-Passive-Power-Over-Ethernet-RJ45-Injector-Splitter-Kit-12-48v-Synthesizer/32516398486.html

 

with this:

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/10cm-3-9-5-5mm-x-2-1mm-DC-Female-to-Micro-USB-Male-Charging-Cable/32319957922.html

 

A normal Ethernet switch will work. You'll need a power supply around 5V to inject into the cables.

 

However you need to be careful because 5V does not travel well over long distances. If you are planning to run the Ethernet cables over more than ~3m, then this solution will not work because the voltage will sag. It might be possible to compensate by injecting a higher voltage at the switch, but if the Ethernet cables are of differing lengths you'll be risking some OPi's getting voltage which is too low.

 

The other option is to get a real 802.3af/at Ethernet switch which provides 48V PoE and then buying a proper PoE power supply like this one:

http://www.tp-link.com/en/products/details/cat-4794_TL-POE10R.html

 

That takes the 48V PoE from the switch and outputs 5V. With these devices, there's no risk of voltage sag and you can safely run long Ethernet cables.

 

If you want something slightly cheaper, you can try the same kind of device but from China:

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/free-shipping-IEEE-802-3af-Standard-5V-2A-Output-10-100M-PoE-Splitter-Power-over-Ethernet/32648963285.html

 

(Note the AliExpress one is only 10/100MBit while the TP-Link is Gigabit)

 

It's also possible to buy the PoE power supply as a PCB which you could solder to the pads on the bottom of the OPi to convert 48V to 5V, but the cost of these is not competitive with the above external adapters.

 

Of course as soon as you get into the proper PoE switch and power supply, the price starts going higher.

tkaiser

tkaiser

Posted
Posted

It's also possible to buy the PoE power supply as a PCB which you could solder to the pads on the bottom of the OPi to convert 48V to 5V, but the cost of these is not competitive with the above external adapters.

 

The obvious use case for the 4 PoE solder pads is to combine a passive PoE injector as you've already shown with simple step-down converters soldered in between. Since buck converters for 48V --> 5V are expensive better use a central 24V PSU:

Using GbE PoE splitters like TL-POE10R is not the best if it's about energy efficiency: https://forum.armbian.com/index.php/topic/1762-new-oranges-with-h5-and-h2/?p=19054

dgp

dgp

Posted
Posted

Hi everyone,

Got problem with WiFi using nightly kernel.

 

Look at the big readme the original branch has https://github.com/fifteenhex/xradio/tree/original or take a look at the device tree I am using https://github.com/fifteenhex/linux/blob/orangepizero/arch/arm/boot/dts/sun8i-h2-orangepi-zero.dts

 

The unmodified driver tries to power up and detect the chip when the module loads and fails the module loading if it fails.

My version decouples that. So the module can be loaded even if the chip hasn't been detected.

 

You should see on boot the MMC subsystem telling you that a new SDIO card has been detected.

If you have that when you load the module it'll get probed and wlan0 should appear.

dgp

dgp

Posted
Posted

dgp,

 

Nice work. Now do you know if Bluetooth x.x can be supported?

 

The datasheet I have for the xr819 says it's WiFi only. There is no mention of BT.

dgp

dgp

Posted
Posted

dgp,

 

I see. I thought that with 2.4 GHz WiFi chip, it is a matter of a software driver for Bluetooth. No special hw is necessary.

 

 

There are probably chips that can do that but I'm not sure about the xr819. Datasheet says its for low cost applications like media players. Either way we only have the wifi driver to work from and no reference for the firmware commands etc so adding it wouldn't be easy.

atharmian

atharmian

Posted
Posted

I read the wiki on PoE:

 

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Power_over_Ethernet

 

Under the sub topic: Non Standard Implementations-Passive it talks about PoE injectors, but there is no mention of PoE switches.

 

1. Does this mean we cannot use PoE switches as PSE's with Passive PoE which looks cheaper for OPi0 as PD ( just a zero ohm resistor between pads) ?

 

2. For example, could we connect 4 OPi0 PDs ( say, acting as USB webcam modules) to a 4 port PoE switch via cat5 cable to stream video, then connect the WAN port to another device receiving these streams?

1
tkaiser

tkaiser

Posted
Posted

The unmodified driver tries to power up and detect the chip when the module loads and fails the module loading if it fails.

My version decouples that. So the module can be loaded even if the chip hasn't been detected.

And now the funny part. The Armbian images we provide are all based on legacy kernel with original driver (that sucks). You provide a fixed/better version for mainline but none of the Armbian devs included these patches so far (I would do it but I can't test so it's useless) but for reasons unknown to me we started to provide a nightly build for OPI Zero based on 4.9 but without WiFi driver included.

 

And all discussions here in forum jump happily between both kernel and driver variants without taking notice.

 

Maybe just to create maximum confusion....

andormaybe

andormaybe

Posted
Posted

Dear Armbian magicians,

 

I just received my Orange Pi Zero with extension module just in time for Xmas :) and tried getting tv out to work. I added   'tv'   to   /etc/modules and did a   sudo modprobe tv plus reboot. But I still don't get a picture on my tv. What could be missing? I'm connecting via SCART connector to my tv (I'm in Germany).

 

Thx a lot for considering my question and a merry Xmas

- andormaybe

sle118

sle118

Posted
Posted

Has anyone attempted running hostapd on the zero? I have ordered 2 about a month ago and plan on using it as a portable media server with 128Gb micro SD.

 

Thanks!

hmartin

hmartin

Posted
Posted

You provide a fixed/better version for mainline but none of the Armbian devs included these patches so far (I would do it but I can't test so it's useless) but for reasons unknown to me we started to provide a nightly build for OPI Zero based on 4.9 but without WiFi driver included.

 

Busy with xmas stuff right now, but once this craziness is behind me I'll package dgp's work as I tried to do with fifteenhex and submit a PR so we *can* have a working WiFi driver included.

 

 

Under the sub topic: Non Standard Implementations-Passive it talks about PoE injectors, but there is no mention of PoE switches.

 

1. Does this mean we cannot use PoE switches as PSE's with Passive PoE which looks cheaper for OPi0 as PD ( just a zero ohm resistor between pads) ?

 

2. For example, could we connect 4 OPi0 PDs ( say, acting as USB webcam modules) to a 4 port PoE switch via cat5 cable to stream video, then connect the WAN port to another device receiving these streams?

 

I am slightly confused by your questions here, so sorry if I answer them wrong.

 

1. Unless the passive PoE splitter includes a 25kOhm resistor, the switch won't provide any power to the port:

"A PD indicates that it is standards-compliant by placing a 25 kΩ resistor between the powered pairs."

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Power_over_Ethernet#Powering_devices

 

Also "PoE" switches all implement 802.3af/at, which operates at 48V. You need to step this down to 5V for the OPi unless you want a small fire.

 

So I think the answer to the question is: no, you cannot use a PoE switch as a PSE with a passive adapter on the OPi end.

 

2. For an 802.3af/at compliant switch, this would only be possible with step down from 48V to 5V at the OPi. As mentioned previously, these are pretty expensive and for the power envelope of the OPi0 may not be energy efficient.

 

Or you can use a normal Ethernet switch with a passive 24V injector, as tkaiser pointed out it's cheaper to drop 24V to 5V than 48V: https://forum.armbian.com/index.php/topic/2808-orange-pi-zero-went-to-the-market/page-7#entry21880

1
martinayotte

martinayotte

Posted
Posted

Busy with xmas stuff right now, but once this craziness is behind me I'll package dgp's work as I tried to do with fifteenhex and submit a PR so we *can* have a working WiFi driver included.

I will probably give it a try too, because lot of things changed/committed since last time I've tried few weeks ago ...

Magnets

Magnets

Posted
Posted

What sort of power usage does this consume when running under load?

 

I'm looking at these SBC to make a small NAS using USB memory sticks, but don't need much throughput - only 2-5MBps write speed over ethernet

atharmian

atharmian

Posted
Posted

I am slightly confused by your questions here, so sorry if I answer them wrong.

 

1. Unless the passive PoE splitter includes a 25kOhm resistor, the switch won't provide any power to the port:

"A PD indicates that it is standards-compliant by placing a 25 kΩ resistor between the powered pairs."

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Power_over_Ethernet#Powering_devices

 

Also "PoE" switches all implement 802.3af/at, which operates at 48V. You need to step this down to 5V for the OPi unless you want a small fire.

 

So I think the answer to the question is: no, you cannot use a PoE switch as a PSE with a passive adapter on the OPi end.

 

2. For an 802.3af/at compliant switch, this would only be possible with step down from 48V to 5V at the OPi. As mentioned previously, these are pretty expensive and for the power envelope of the OPi0 may not be energy efficient.

 

Or you can use a normal Ethernet switch with a passive 24V injector, as tkaiser pointed out it's cheaper to drop 24V to 5V than 48V: https://forum.armbian.com/index.php/topic/2808-orange-pi-zero-went-to-the-market/page-7#entry21880

I am confused myself as newbie as this is all with a lot of options/prices :)

 

Bottom line is that OPi as other Chinese sources really are only using mode B ( power in the non-data Ethernet wire pairs) and are not really 802.3af/at compliant, to save money...

 

I am going to ask all PoE questions once...

 

Just looked at these tkaiser posts from 02 Nov onwards, and these summarize my views on the unmatched price/ performance of OPi0, now that the 2MB SPI flash is soldered and the WiFi driver works (?):

 

https://forum.armbian.com/index.php/topic/2808-orange-pi-zero-went-to-the-market/

 

 

So assuming my use case with 4 OPi0 USB cam modules as PDs are used with 20-30m Eth cable lengths,

 

1. This AliExpress 802.3af item including PoE switch and PSU seems to say that nothing will burn out:

 

1 4 Port IEEE802.3af 10/100Mbps POE Switch Power Over Ethernet For IP Camera Network Switch VoIP Phone AP Devices Network Switch

http://www.aliexpress.com/item/32605335058/32605335058.html

 

If above is true, will I need to solder the PCB 57/48-5V expensive device to the OPi0 pads, as you suggested Dec 22, 3.01?

 

The Xunlong sunxi page says- a 802.3af "converter":

http://linux-sunxi.org/Xunlong_Orange_Pi_Zero#Powering_the_board

 

 

2. If above doesn't make sense, because of expense (that China 57/48-5V power splitter you mentioned still has to be used one each on each webcam module), think I should need:

 

A. Estol power injector (as you kindly linked above.)

 

But this is the 48V version, any 24V version?

 

B. 24V PSU for Estol?

 

C. 24-5V buck converter to solder on OPi0 pads ?

 

3. Why should I need a power splitter with OPi0 PD, or was that a generic reference on your part?

 

4. BTW, the micro USB adapter and the power splitter you linked above both seem to have female heads.

 

5. Any AliExpress examples of the 24-5V power injector, PSU and buck converter?

 

6. Here is a cheap power injector similar to your above link, talking not 24V:

 

100% Original 4 LAN Ports Passive Power Over Ethernet Module Injector DC 9-48V IP Camera Power supply PoE switch adapter PoE box

http://www.aliexpress.com/item/32555424008/32555424008.html

 

I searched for this "9-48V" PSU but no hits on AliExpress except here, which doesn't look right:

 

AC/DC 9V-48V To 1.8-25V 3A Adjustable Step Down Power Supply Voltage Module Board For Terminals LED Resistor Potentiometer

http://s.aliexpress.com/FBBJZN3u

 

In any case, I would like to stick to the 24-5V power injector/ PSU / buck converter.

 

7. How would we use the OPi0 as PoE injector, passive or 802.3af, as the last sentence here says from Xunlong sunxi?

 

http://linux-sunxi.org/Xunlong_Orange_Pi_Zero#Powering_the_board

 

I do appreciate all your folks' help. Lots to learn here as OPi ( and others) keep churning new products!

 

Merry Christmas !

gnasch

gnasch

Posted
Posted

About POE:

generally if you want to work with longer cables, higher feed voltage is better, about 48V is brought by standard conforming POE switches, and/or standard conforming POE injectors.

The standard also requests a multi step "feeling" protocol to see whether the device is POE capable, so that nothing will be grilled by unrequested 48V.

If you are sure what is connected on which port, you can forget about the "feeling" and take cheaper injectors/splitters without it.

If you have only modest cable length and moderate power requirements you can use lower feed voltage, say 24-30V.

Many chinese devices do this, but they will no more conform to standard.

 

Here is a nice cheap 48 to 5V splitter which seems ok for opipc, i will order and test one of these.

 

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/5V-2A-POE-splitter-gigabit-802-3af-at-active-POE-splitter-for-5V-2A-IP-camera/32741502485.html

 

best, gnasch

atharmian

atharmian

Posted
Posted

gnasch,

 

Thanks.

 

My problem is that there is a lot of unofficial stuff that also works in many cases very affordably...Great, but lots of learning and caveats.

 

 

1. Quickly checked this gigabit splitter. Is there a cheaper Fast Ethernet,100 Mbps, one ?

Now where do I get a good, cheap PSU for this stuff?

 

Really, I would prefer a 24-5V PSU/ buck converter since this would be cheaper.

 

2. Also, any recommendations for a good, cheap USB/ CSI camera module with PoE?

I mean besides OPi0? Or is OPi0 good/ cheap enough for Fast Ethernet?

 

By module I mean a board that will stream video/audio with a few features, WiFi or PoE or both.

 

CSI I am told has better SoC access and programmability, but is there a big difference between CSI on OPi models and plain old USB connectivity?

 

 

Of course officially " passive" ( no negotiable controls) PoE is not standard, but over less than 4m, it looks great.

 

And with that cheaper 24-5V power injector the standard but expensive 48-5V injector/ PSU can be avoided, over longer distances I assume. That is hacking :)

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