TinkerBoard S What's that?

[jkljkl1197]

I hear something about a new version of the board Thinkerboard,  "Tinkerboard S". I want to know what you know and think about it.

https://www.asus.com/Single-Board-Computer/Tinker-Board-S/

[chrisf]

It's basically the same as the original Tinkerboard with 16GB of eMMC and a few minor tweaks

[Sangram]

First time hearing of it, looks like another misadventure by Asus and will end in a badly coded TinkerOS which cannot install even basic stuff like Samba properly.

 

I would really have liked to see USB 3.0. The additional performance of the 3288 is lost in thermal throttling (which they have done nothing about) and the very strange choice of micro-USB for power input - which also they did not do anything about except specify that the cable needs to carry 3A - yet to hear of a possible candidate. None promise more than 2.4A, and most of them can't even do that. They offer OTG support in the micro-USB port but that's the only way to power it, and no PC will give 3A on a USB port.

 

It's typical of Asus to continue their knee-jerk launches without fixing the underlying problems in the architecture. I know they're not rocket scientists but come on!

 

I do have mine running stable 24x7 but that is only with a top quality cable and a fan blowing air directly across the board. Oh, and because I'm not using their stupid OS, I chose Armbian.

[TonyMac32]

Well, my personal opinion is this is most likely a "more complete" Tinker board with some of the originally intended functionality completed.  For instance all the pins on the 2x2 header next to the microUSB now have a purpose, eMMC, etc.  

 

For thermal, I installed a much broader heat sink that still manages to fit under the hats.  It is not perfect, but is much better about throttling.  

 

For power, you can power it via the GPIO.  For testing purposes I still use the microUSB, but for running it as a user it is strictly GPIO.  The system rarely has issues with undervoltage, but the USB devices will suffer when the 5.0 volts becomes 4.75 or lower.  If possible get a 5.25 volt supply, to give more safety factor against voltage drop.

[Sangram]

I understand that almost all problems can be fixed by users, but I also think the community shouldn't be fixing basic problems in a 'second' version. It's okay to have missed stuff in the first version, but they should be listening to makers if they claim to have been working with them. Thermal and power issues are basic usability concerns which the S version should have fixed, the only 'fix' was to specify a 3A cable which is not possible in micro-USB form factor, the required wire gauges will not fit the connector and even if they did the pad sizes on the mating parts is insufficient.

 

I never had an issue with mine either in terms of power even though I am using it in a 24x7 application with micro-USB. The (temporary) supply is 4A, with one port for the hub with HDD and other for the Tinker. But a lot of newbies will assume that the design is fully thought through, which it isn't and requires some level of hardware hacking to use it to its fullest potential - either a bigger sink, or a fan of some kind, preferably both.

 

I do agree the eMMC is a nice touch, and for audio the I2S slave and master mode is a great addition - if they can get it to work correctly - even basic sound doesn't work correctly either using internal or external cards in all distributions even one year after launch. There's no hardware acceleration of the video output for any apps except the RK Media Player, which isn't exactly a feature-rich media player.  Basically they made a decent bit kit, but there's a lot to do to get more out of it.

 

My humble opinion is that they had some more issues that should have occupied some attention - they had the opportunity to address them, and they didn't. My bigger worry is that these basic usability issues keep the board adoption at a low level and the company eventually ditches the project because not enough people are jumping on the bandwagon, even though the reasons are of their own making.

[TonyMac32]

I can see where you're coming from and agree on some topics, but I think this needs to be carefully viewed in terms of "fit for market".  The Raspberry Pi sets a very low bar for hardware, being a voltage and heat catastrophe with no High speed SD access, etc. (Don't want to wake the Pi Legion, so I'll leave it there)

 

So in the context of that, the only real failure is the software support being less than what you would hope.  And that, honestly, is somewhat unfair (again, through RPi goggles) given how long the Pi has been out and how long it took to get where it is.  If I had 1 open criticism on the software side, I believe they should perform their kernel development publicly, and not per release.  I think they would be able to benefit from that far more than their current model, for instance I have submitted some fixes/etc, but have no idea if they are implemented and also do not know if I will be credited at all (secondary concern, but not irrelevant for people who would like to contribute significant things)

 

As far as speed goes, it is still one of my fastest boards.  The 64 bit models have different strengths, so comparison is not always practical.  

 

I will review the S eventually and give feedback, so stay tuned.

[jkljkl1197]

(sorry if it's too mutch out topic)Hi guy's, I still search why I can't power my tinkerboard without crash/reboot on a 12V battery with a regulator convert at 5-5.25V connect on micro-usb. I use this http://www.instructables.com/id/The-Introduction-of-LM2596-Step-Down-Power-Module-/ to convert power. I think it's because the output of this regulator module is not stable. I think i gonna buy this https://www.amazon.ca/SODIAL-Converter-Module-Output-Adapter/dp/B071PFMRKK/ref=sr_1_119?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1518649195&sr=1-119&keywords=12v+5v+dc+3A to replace it. I want to know if this solution is fine or only what you think about it.

 

I don't understand why asus don't add a dc barrel plug...
I want to know can we power the tinkerboard from micro-usb with a 3A micro-usb and get 3A on the board or it's the mirco-usb socket(femele) on the board set the limit that low(i am not a expert in electronic)?
@TonyMac32 do you have any new about CSI Raspberry pi camera for thinkerboard armbian, I really apreciate if someone in the armbian team have a pi camera and try to get it work ^^.

Thanks (sorry if my english is bad, I am french)

[TonyMac32]

1 hour ago, jkljkl1197 said:

Thanks (sorry if my english is bad, I am french)

 I work with French people every day, I recognize the dialect. 

 

For powering, there is a thread devoted to that: 

 

For the "Why no barrel jack":. It is simple.  The Tinker fits the RPi form factor perfectly.  You can pull out the pi and stick in the tinker with no thought a lot of the time (mechanically of course, software is different).

 

For the camera: I have no camera, so I do not know.  I know I do not have all of the device drivers loading right now, and I haven't put in 100% of the device tree parts, so an image today would not work out of the box.  

 

 

[jkljkl1197]

@TonyMac32 thx it's gonna help me so mutch. I have compile the kernel and add some option about csi driver or something related to it maybe if it have a chance to work just by enable it without add new code in the kernel. I gonna test it tomorrow.

 

 

[jkljkl1197]

Just a little update there (url are for canada).
I gonna buy a (usb Voltage amp checker) https://www.amazon.ca/Current-Voltage-Doctor-Charger-Capacity/dp/B01NBHVYNI/ref=sr_1_36?ie=UTF8&qid=1518657625&sr=8-36&keywords=USB+Digital+Power+Meter+Tester+Multimeter
a 5A 75W XL4015 https://www.ebay.ca/itm/5A-75W-XL4015-DC-DC-Converter-Adjustable-Step-Down-Module-4-0-38V-to-1-25V-36V/162873941297?hash=item25ec0b1d31:g:kiAAAOSwZoZabSGF

and a 3A micro usb with a 12v t0 5V 3A (if the converter in it not working i just gonna cut and use the cable on the XL4015 because the cable is 3M it's long(it's a only power no data cable in it)) https://www.ebay.ca/itm/DC12V-to-5V-Mini-Micro-USB-DC3-5-Hard-Wired-Converter-Car-Cable-for-DVR-Recorder/132153291415?hash=item1ec4f33297:m:mckOMG5rGhG9tIRRpnEQItQ
https://www.ebay.ca/itm/GENUINE-LG-G4-G3-G-G2-HIGH-SPEED-20AWG-MICRO-USB-CHARGER-LEAD-CABLE-BLACK/252502327505?

[Tido]

15 hours ago, jkljkl1197 said:

(usb Voltage amp checker) https://www.amazon.ca/Current-Voltage-Doctor-Charger-Capacity/dp/B01NBHVYNI/ref=sr_1_36?

Every connector is a resistor, and depending on the design of this device it can become an even bigger resistor.

 

15 hours ago, jkljkl1197 said:

i just gonna cut and use the cable on the XL4015 because the cable is 3M it's long

if you check the picture, the cable is AWG24, as thin as a hair.  Not worth the money in any case.

 

AWG20:

https://www.ebay.ca/itm/GENUINE-LG-G4-G3-G-G2-HIGH-SPEED-20AWG-MICRO-USB-CHARGER-LEAD-CABLE-BLACK/252502327505?

Edited February 15, 2018 by Tido
AWG

[chwe]

On 14.2.2018 at 8:06 PM, TonyMac32 said:

If I had 1 open criticism on the software side, I believe they should perform their kernel development publicly, and not per release. 

Could be a 'company issue'... I don't know any public development from asus in the past years. So it might need some time until the management understands that it could make sense do develop their products in public. Microsoft needed also some time until they realized that it could make sense to develop things in public..  

 

Is the new tinker perfect.. I don't think so, but every board which should fit in the RPi form factor will have powering issues. You can't power 4 USB devices, HDMI and probably a CSI camera through one microUSB.  'Voltage detection' is probably the best they can do when they want to fit into the RPi formfactor (the best they could do would be to remove the 3.5mm audio jack and put a small barrel jack there ). 

 

It would be interesting how much this board will cost.. Since there are a lot of RK3399 boards coming to market this year this might be important. eMMC without socket is IMO the false way.  Not everyone needs 16GB, let the user decide which and how many eMMC they want. The only reason I would buy 16GB instead of 8GB is cause the 8GB modules are mostly slower than the 16GB modules. 

 

I've a tinker at home (not tinker S).. bought cause it was relatively cheap in the beginnings (~40$ here in Switzerland, now it's 65$ ), but I've still no real use case for it... I don't need a TV box, I've better boards for NAS stuff and for IoT too. The GPU is relatively powerful maybe it could be interesting for camera related stuff (openCL 1.1), but I never hat time to dig into this topic... 

 

It's one of the very few boards with 'RPi compatibility' which fulfill more or less this claim.. Form factor and all possible connectors (pinheader, CSI, DSI).  If you need a 'more powerful' RPi. This board might be a good choice.. You can probably use all the stuff you bought for your RPi (cooling would be a nightmare in those small RPi cases) and when needed you've 'a bit' more power...  

[jkljkl1197]

@Tido thx !

[TonyMac32]

I can only assume it will be more than the Tinker [Classic?].  The eMMC alone would probably push them to ~$80 (I think I saw that number on another site as well), so yes, I would be concerned about price competitiveness against the RK3399 boards due out this year.  Something the Tinker has going for it though is the rk3288 having by far the best mainline support available, so $80 for it working more or less properly vs the same amount for an RK3399 board that is as of yet an unknown...  Also, the 3399 only has 2 fast cores, 64-bit or not.  The Tinker has 4.  For brute-force processing, that might be a hard decision to make.

 

For development, their kernel is really just the Rockchip kernel with some tweaks, which are of course available per release.  My main contention is that by doing the between release work in a private repo, they shut out the interaction of the community, who is trying to help. (The Tinkerboarding forum folks have put in some PR's as well, and some requests.)  It's also among the reasons I decided to patch the Rockchip kernel for the default rather than the ASUS one, because I can keep pace with the rockchip updates and account for them if errors happen, the ASUS one has no visibility until release, then who knows how many small issues might come up that have to be dealt with?  Keeping the MiQi working that way would be a nightmare.

 

But, back to the S:  It is a Tinker board with some bugfixes and an eMMC on the board.  The Tinker works admirably well, is not too bad to support (once the hardware bugs were handled in software, the only real support problems are the RPi-style ones where the RPi flaws became the Tinker flaws.)  If the cost seems justified I'd say it's as good a pick as any if you have need of that form factor and that much processing power.  Now of course, I would rather have seen a SPI flash get put onboard, but those pins are on the GPIO header, so it would have been a tear-up and ruined compatibility.