datsuns

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  1. Like
    datsuns reacted to wtarreau in Quick review of NanoPi Fire3   
    Use sales@, I've used it several times and it works. Oh and put a link to the discussion in this forum so that they know you're not just doing random stuff but are actually using their boards fine. I wouldn't be surprised if they're used to receive an occasional complaint from people who just accidently erase their micro-SD and cry for help.
  2. Like
    datsuns reacted to shaun27 in Quick review of NanoPi Fire3   
    Think wtarreau summed up most bits but temp wise 63 is completely fine tbh (what temp mine were running at in the summer). Also have you tried completely disconnected the problematic board and completely discharging it and only starting it up with power in and no peripherals. In the past twice now i found static and a dodgy external usb hard-drives have caused problems with computers. Also if you got a multimeter its worth checking the gpio pins to see if they are  5volts at least that way you can eliminate its not the power supply chips on the board or weak connection on the micro usb.
  3. Like
    datsuns reacted to wtarreau in Quick review of NanoPi Fire3   
    You should try to connect a serial adapter to its console port to see if it emits anything at boot. If it doesn't, it's probably dead. If it emits random errors which differ upon every boot, it could be the RAM which became defective. This happened to me on a few boards in the past, and on one of the MIQIs on my build farm. It is also possible that a solder joint has gone bad under a BGA chip. That's the most common failure cause in modern hardware (especially smartphones). It's even worse with RoHS and lead-free because lead-free tin is less elastic and breaks more easily. I've repaired a few such dead boards using a hot air gun and an infrared thermometer, but each time you know that you're probably killing it even more, so you have to be prepared to this. Note that it can also work in an oven if you want to try. Most of the time it doesn't work and can even make things worse but if the board is dead, there's nothing to lose to try. Just pre-heat your oven at 180°C without the board, make sure the temperature is stable (otherwise pre-heat it at 200 and stop it). Then place the board inside for 3-5 minutes. Don't touch it to extract it, open the oven to let it cool down enough, and pick the board once the temperature has dropped enough for the solders to be solid. Some plastic may get slightly damaged if the oven is too hot (e.g. reset button).
     
     
    The datasheet recommends -25 to 85°C operating temperature (both ambient and die), and -40 to 150 storage. In short it means that it must work flawlessly at 85, that beyond this it only will if you're lucky, and that at 150 you're definitely certain to fry it. Also running a chip past its maximum operating temperature risks to hang it and a hung chip may quickly get damaged. But below 85 you have zero risk for the device itself. If you're overclocking, the margin may be lower.
     
     
    My personal appreciation of "running pretty hard" is when the chip's temperature never has the opportunity to fall back into the recommended range ;-)
     
     
    Yep I agree. I wanted to do it as well but my copper plates are too thick. However since my board is inside a very tight cardboard "enclosure", I've added an aluminum plate on the other side above two efficient thermal pads. It allows to collect some of the heat from the other side and spread it through the cardboard. It was enough to make the temperature drop by 5-10°C here. But in general since aluminum has a moderate thermal resistance, you indeed want to improve its contact surface with the hot source. A copper plate (which is a much better thermal conductor) does this by spreading the heat all over the base of the heat sink and avoiding hot spots below it. Ideally you need to have a soft thermal pad covering the whole surface of the copper plate, except the small silicon part, so that the heat is extracted from anything below. I've long been wondering if it would be possible to achieve this using a good chunk of silicon glue to stick the copper plate on top of everything. But that would definitely destroy the board.
  4. Like
    datsuns reacted to shaun27 in Quick review of NanoPi Fire3   
    I get exactly the same 28.2 using xmrig sometimes 28.1. IRC overclocking the CPU will do nothing to improve the hashrate but burn extra power.
     
    The only way to increase hashrate is to overclock ram speed as crytonight algorithm uses 1mb per core or 2mb can't remember of top of my head. If I'm correct the CPU on the nanopi fire3 has like 1mb maybe, so it has to do these calculations from ram which is far slower then CPU memory.
     
    Also don't forget to add some type of heatsink on those rams because they do get hot if you try overclocking!
     
    Forgot to mention when you compile xmrig don't forget before you build under cmake to add following.
     
    cmake .. -DCMAKE_C_COMPILER=gcc-7 -DCMAKE_CXX_COMPILER=g++-7
     
    This supposedly gives hashrate increases using gcc7 etc but tbh xmrig isn't really optimized for arm cpus.
  5. Like
    datsuns got a reaction from gounthar in Powering Your SBC Cluster   
    For those of you running a large SBC cluster - what is your solution for powering your boards.
     
    I currently have a cluster of 18 boards that I am powering with several multiport usb chargers. My setup does work well but I am looking for alternative solutions. I'm thinking of expanding my cluster to 50 or more boards and I don't like the prospect of purchasing so many of these multiport chargers as they're a little bit expensive. And I also don't know about the long term reliability of my current setup as I have only been going for about 2 months now.
     
    I would love to hear about and see other people's SBC cluster powering solutions.
     
    EDIT: I'm open to all options but some kind of rackmount solution would be best. A lot of the rackmount stuff is very spendy - and I honestly don't mind that if it can power a lot of units. But I am mostly curious about skipping the powering alternatives that don't use the USB port at all. It just seems the best solution when powering many devices simultaneously.
  6. Like
    datsuns got a reaction from gounthar in Quick review of NanoPi Fire3   
    Update
     
    All my boards have had continuous up-time for a full month now with rock solid consistency. I am really happy with this board so far and would recommend it to others. Just make sure the cooling is adequate and you will be happy with performance.
     
     
     
  7. Like
    datsuns got a reaction from TonyMac32 in Quick review of NanoPi Fire3   
    Update
     
    All my boards have had continuous up-time for a full month now with rock solid consistency. I am really happy with this board so far and would recommend it to others. Just make sure the cooling is adequate and you will be happy with performance.
     
     
     
  8. Like
    datsuns reacted to wtarreau in Quick review of NanoPi Fire3   
    I'm pretty sure it depends on a number of parameters. Mine starts to throttle at 113 degrees C because I found that it works fine till 120 and I don't want it to throttle for no reason. In your case for a cluster it will be difficult to test all boards and check that they're running fine over time. But it can also be valuable. I seem to remember reading 90 degrees max in the datasheet so that could be a good start but it's very close to the existing limits. I don't know if the stability of your workloads is critical or if you can take the risk to see one board hang once in a while to find the limits. One other important factor to keep in mind is whether you're using the GPU or not. I am not, which is why I can trust the ability to throttle to cool it down. If you are not using it either, you could possibly decide to start with a limit at 105.
     
    I'm only concerned by temperatures getting close to the ones causing instability. For most of my hardware, when I focus on performance I don't care if it shortens its life since it will be obsolete before it dies.  That's why I searched the limits for my board. You need to keep a bit of margin because it takes some time for the temperature to be reported, then when the board starts to throttle it continues to heat a bit. However at very high temperatures it cools down very quickly. Mine throttles at 113 and it rarely reaches 115.
     
    I'm using the stock heat sink, and worse, the whole thing is packed into a cardboard "enclosure" so that it can safely lay in my computer bag. Basically there is no air flow around it, it only adds latency to the temperature raise, and spreads it all around in the cardboard. It's totally horrible, and when I leave it for too long on my desk, the desk gets hot under it :-)
     
    For my use cases (mostly network endpoint for development) it doesn't throttle at all. I've run some build tests, and I have enough time to compile for a few minutes before it starts to throttle, but even when it does, it doesn't for too long (it oscillates between 113 and 115 degrees).
     
    Oh I know what you're talking about, I also happen to hate fans for the same reason. I've installed a 12cm fan behind my MiQi build farm at work, which is powered by the central board's GPIO when the temperature gets too high. It's a 12V fan running on 5V so it probably rotates at less than 1000 RPM and I almost can't hear it. The one at home has much larger heat sinks and no fan. Small fans are noisy and inefficient, you should really pick a large and slow one for your whole cluster. That's what I'd do if I built one (I'd love to just for fun, it's just that I figured that I have no use case for a NanoPi cluster at the moment!).
  9. Like
    datsuns reacted to shaun27 in Quick review of NanoPi Fire3   
    I am currenty running 5 fire 3 with https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B00PK1IIJY/ref=asc_df_B00PK1IIJY53128804/?tag=googshopuk-21&creative=22146&creativeASIN=B00PK1IIJY&linkCode=df0&hvadid=214877336784&hvpos=1o1&hvnetw=g&hvrand=4890684913338719900&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev=c&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9045573&hvtargid=pla-420046835187
     
    As for cooling i use https://www.amazon.co.uk/ELUTENG-Computer-Portable-Radiator-Ventilator/dp/B071CL82G9/ref=sr_1_18?ie=UTF8&qid=1528834494&sr=8-18&keywords=usb+fan. I have mine stacked so no need for fans for each unit.
     
    All nanopi fire 3s are around 55c at stock freq under full cpu load.
     
    Also be very very careful with that 10 port power supply. I know mine gets warm running 5 fire3 and the usb fan at present so do not go to the limit with the power supply as it will most likely melt. Always stay under the rated wattage!. They are not designed for prolonged high wattage usage.
     
    I have got my fire3 stacked in https://www.amazon.co.uk/ILS-Clear-Acrylic-Cluster-Raspberry/dp/B0768DDTKD/ref=sr_1_2?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1528835367&sr=1-2&keywords=raspberry+pi+stack+case
    You will need to drill new holes to mount them btw.
     
    If you do get problems with under voltage or shutdown etc check the usb cables. So many times with the raspberry pi i have got under-voltage warnings and 95% time it isn't the power supply but cheap cables or long length usb cables that caused the problem.
     
  10. Like
    datsuns got a reaction from manuti in Quick review of NanoPi Fire3   
    Ok, I'm going to just keep adding boards if it continues to work. I was more worried about it throttling down the performance of the boards before they shut off but it sounds like that's not what it would do.
     
    You seem knowledgeable about the board so what do you feel like is a good stable operating temperature for these units?  I am running active cooling and no overclock (1.4GHz) on all of my fires and I am seeing something between 66-70 degrees C on average when I periodically check on temps. This can of course vary depending on the ambient temerature in the room as well. If I tried out a mild overclock what temperature range would you start to get concerned at? It sounds like you are running yours at 1.6GHz - what kind of cooling are you running?  I'm currently using small fans running on 3.3v. My setup is close to my desk and I have found running them at 5v is on the annoying side so I'd like to keep them at 3.3v.
  11. Like
    datsuns got a reaction from gounthar in Quick review of NanoPi Fire3   
    I now have quite a few of these boards running and I am powering them through Anker mulitport usb charging hubs and all seems well.
     
    This might be more of a general Armbian question but if I wanted to verify that my boards aren't experiencing any undervolting, is there a log file that I can look at?
     
    I am just being cautious now - everything seems to be running in tip-top shape with no issues.
  12. Like
    datsuns reacted to shaun27 in Quick review of NanoPi Fire3   
    @datsuns double check that the thermal pad they provided didn't move when you were installing the heatsink.
     
    I know when I first got it I put the thermal pad on then placed the heatsink without putting the screws in the heatsink first. This caused the thermal pad to move off slightly. Also thought I killed it by pushing down to hard and all .
     
    Temp wise low usage you might get away with no active cooling but this thing does pack a bunch for its size. And I will add temp wise it does handle better then raspberry pi 3 due to the massive heatsink.
     
    I've tested this for 4 days straight on xmrig and it sits @ 58c stock speed all 8 cores. 29.5hs btw for cryptonight.
     
    Just make sure when you shutdown under armbian you pull the power plug because it doesn't shutdown right and CPU heats up. Under friendlyarm it does the same btw only power off button works. So sudo halt or logout doesn't really shutdown right!.
     
     
  13. Like
    datsuns reacted to wtarreau in Quick review of NanoPi Fire3   
    I tested a miner on it ("cpuminer" I think) to give numbers to a friend interested on the subject (he was impressed by the way). I didn't let it run for hours like this, but after several minutes it started to throttle down to 1 GHz then stabilized, but didn't stop (and keep in mind it's tightly enclosed in cardboard). It's certain that the modified DTB I'm using helps here with the higher temperature thresholds, but I'm suspecting you might have too weak a power supply or micro USB cable if it stopped. That's always the risk with DVFS : it consumes very little in idle but a lot under load. I discovered one bad cable in my stock using which the board would reboot in loops. @tkaiser could tell you hundreds of horror stories about micro-usb based power inputs :-)
     
    I find it really awesome and have been asking for it since I got my nanopi-fire2 about two years ago! I'm mostly interested in CPU and network, and this is the only board which comes with a CPU, some RAM, a gigabit connector and nothing else! I'm sure there's plenty of unexploited power in it and am willing to try to push it further!
     
    I'm attaching my modified DTB, it adds the 1.6 GHz frequency point and the 113,115,120 degrees critical points which work fine for me and considerably limit the throttling. Save yours before replacing it (variant "rev05"). I have no idea if my values will work on your board or will even kill it, use at your own risks! And please double-check the thermal contact between your heatsink and your CPU.
    s5p6818-nanopi3-rev05.1g6-1v25-113deg.dtb
  14. Like
    datsuns got a reaction from gounthar in Quick review of NanoPi Fire3   
    Well I added a tiny, cheap fan running off the 3.3v pin in conjunction with the included heatsink and thermal pad. At 100% CPU load I am getting a very stable 58-59 degrees C according to armbianmonitor. This is with an ambient room temp of about 23 degrees C.
     
    It's like night and day compared to the heatsink alone. I guess these boards really like to have a fan. So if anybody out there wants to run their board hard - get a fan asap!
  15. Like
    datsuns reacted to chwe in Quick review of NanoPi Fire3   
    Cause the SD-Card isn't that far away from the CPU... You should have in mind that 'consumer grade' SD-Cards don't like heat that much.  They are mostly rated 'up to 85°C'... And according to this one (https://www.sdcard.org/press/thoughtleadership/150715_why_sd_memory_cards.html):
     
    they might not live that long at high temperatures.. I tried once to get some additional information from 'sd-card' makers (did they any tests? how well will their cards perform at higher temps? etc.) but the only answer I got was: We don't provide you any further information for consumer grade cards asking again what tests were done with industrial grade ones ended in no answer at all (not only one company, more or less every 'well known' sd-card maker refused to answer by their official support question form on their websites..  I have in mind that @tkaiser fried once a card by such a 'high temperature experiment' overnight?
     
    Edit: this might be less important if you use things like FEL and the whole thing lives inside ram, but for sure if your board will run at higher temperatures for longer time (probably buildfarm? I don't know if you solve it with SD-Cards or not).. 
     
  16. Like
    datsuns reacted to wtarreau in Quick review of NanoPi Fire3   
    The 3 critical points (in degrees celcius) for the thermal throttling and shutdown. I didn't understand the difference between the first two ones, as the CPU starts to throttle when the first value is reached. The second *seems* to do nothing, the 3rd one is for the forced shutdown.
     
     
    I seem to remember that it starts throttling at 80. IIRC the original values were something like 80, 85 and 105.
     
     
    It definitely is very informative to do so. Do not forget that such boards will heat much more in summer than in winter (you can more or less shift the high temperature by the difference of ambiant termperature). The most important is that your board remains 100% reliable even when it starts to throttle (the temperature can continue to rise a little bit at this point). A CPU's sensitivity to temperature may evolve over time, so keep a bit of margin. Also if you intend to use the GPU, it's not throttled and will definitely add to the thermal dissipation, this will require an extra margin.
     
     
    No the form factor is much smaller, and really well thought, but absolutely not compatible with RPi. Unfortunately there is no enclosure for these boards, it's really the only missing thing. You can stack many of them side by side vertically with just a rear cable for the power supply and a front cable for the network. The overall design is really nice for those who want high power densities.
     
  17. Like
    datsuns reacted to tkaiser in Quick review of NanoPi Fire3   
    Just spotted another important difference between NanoPi M3 and Fire3: 'AXP288 PMIC is gone, and replaced by an STM32 Cortex M0 MCU'. So DVFS implementation is different which also explains why with Armbian there's no difference in idle consumption/temperature when clocking with 400 vs. 1400 MHz.
  18. Like
    datsuns reacted to wtarreau in Quick review of NanoPi Fire3   
    I'd say around 2 weeks.
     
    The default heatsink is enough if you're not running at 100% CPU full-time. For my use cases, it's mostly a network endpoint and I can run it at 1 Gbps without problems even with the board confined in a cardboard made enclosure. But if you run with all CPUs saturated, you'll reach around 5W that need to be dissipated one way or another. The default heatsink and the PCB are not large enough to dissipate 5W at a low temperature. I significantly raised the temperature thresholds (113, 115, 120) to prevent it from throttling too early. Note that these thresholds are higher than the datasheet's (85°C in commercial ranges). But the thermal sensor supports up to 125°C so probably there are some industrial/military grade variants with higher ranges. For a personal project I'd say you have some headroom. For a commercial product, you probably don't want to play with this and you may have to use a small fan, or to place a thermal pad behind the board against a metal enclosure.