OrangePi Zero old releases

[av4625]

Hi,

 

I think I'm right in saying that this board once had standard support?

I noticed it is now community support and the download page lists that there might be Wi-Fi issues.

 

I have this link for previous builds: https://armbian.hosthatch.com/archive/orangepizero/archive/

 

Is there a way of knowing when standard support stopped and community support started etc?

 

Thanks!

[robertoj]

Are you using the latest Debian Bookworm Minimal, or the more complete Ubuntu Jammy Server?

 

In either case, post the result of "lsmod". Run "ip a" and see if there's any "wlan" interface.

 

Run (root) nmtui to try to activate wifi. If nmtui is not available, run "apt install network-manager".

 

Or try it "armbian-config" (apt install armbian-config)

 

If you are using Debian Bookworm, try with Ubuntu Jammy instead... it worked for me yesterday, with Orange Pi Zero and wifi.

[av4625]

Hi robertoj,

 

I’m not specifically having issues, my current device is running an older version. I bought a new second device and came to download an up to date OS and thats when I noticed its not got standard support anymore and the download page mentions there might be wifi issues.

 

I more made the post to see if there is a way of telling which older builds had standard support and when that support stopped.

 

Then I could download the latest build that still had standard support and hopefully less issues. 
 

Thanks!

[Igor]

2 hours ago, av4625 said:

Is there a way of knowing when standard support stopped and community support started etc?

 

Yes. When it doesn't meet support criteria anymore. This is done around release time:
https://docs.armbian.com/User-Guide_Board-Support-Rules/

When time comes, I ask maintainer(s) via email / chat / forum on status, wait few days and if there is no response or interest, if nobody takes supported board under the cover, board status is demoted. I have no alternative as Armbian can't cover financial burden. Its way of charts - we only generate loss by supporting hardware. There is extremely negative budget around Orangepi and they show no interest to support open source in any way.

When someone from community takes a role of "Marketing Coordinator"
 

Quote

 

process will be probably possible to improve and lead better so results (for you) will be better. What we provide now with what we have, is already on the miracle levels. But ofc just a small group of people is able to understand.

 

At next release, if someone steps up and it has a value for the project, status is restored. 

 

Don't worry. "Community support" is still better then any other distributions that "supports" this hardware. Our standards and level of know-how are significantly higher.

[av4625]

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Yes. When it doesn't meet support criteria anymore. This is done around release time:
https://docs.armbian.com/User-Guide_Board-Support-Rules/

When time comes, I ask maintainer(s) via email / chat / forum on status, wait few days and if there is no response or interest, if nobody takes supported board under the cover, board status is demoted. I have no alternative as Armbian can't cover financial burden. Its way of charts - we only generate loss by supporting hardware.

 

I completely understand this and I am not trying to pick a fight with anyone about what is and isn't supported  

I had read that link earlier on the different support levels to understand the differences between them.

 

But what I am asking is from all the builds on here: https://armbian.hosthatch.com/archive/orangepizero/archive/

 

Is there a way for me to know which builds were produced when this particular device was considered standard support and which builds were produced when this particular device was considered community support?

I would like to pick the most recent build that was produced when it was considered standard support.

 

Basically I would like the most recent build that didn't have the disclaimer here: https://www.armbian.com/orange-pi-zero/ about the possibility of things not working (hopefully that makes sense).

 

Quote

There is extremely negative budget around Orangepi and they show no interest to support open source in any way.

This is sad because in my limited experience Armbian works very well on OrangePi, its a pity that they wouldn't support it themselves.

[Igor]

25 minutes ago, av4625 said:

about the possibility of things not working

 

This information is not gathered even where vendor shares financial burden with us (Platinum support) as that only means that we are not generating 100% loss while providing standard support.

 

28 minutes ago, av4625 said:

Basically I would like the most recent build that didn't have the disclaimer here

 

Disclaimer tells that status has changed. It has no affect on images. They continue getting updates, just its fair to tell you that nobody is actually behind. Or you want that we rather lie like our competitors? TINA

[av4625]

Thanks for the answer. So just to make sure that I'm clear there is no way to see what builds had what support levels for a specific device?  Like no timeline for the support the device had?

For example:

1. March 2020 -> Community
2. June 2022 -> Standard
3. December 2023 -> Community

Thats the sort of thing I mean. Maybe this information just isn't kept, just thought I'd ask incase it was.

[Werner]

6 hours ago, av4625 said:

Maybe this information just isn't kept

There is no dedicated record for this, yes. But you can check for file extension changes on specific board configuration files in the commits like:https://github.com/armbian/build/commits/main/config/boards/orangepizero.csc

[av4625]

Thats exactly what I was looking for thanks

[spicedreams]

On 8/29/2024 at 10:23 PM, av4625 said:

Thats exactly what I was looking for thanks

Did you find the answer? I am in a similar boat. I have an Opi0 as NAS working well for 6 years?, but now Syncthing stops working and it's likely the age of the underlying distribution. So I want an up to date (ish) build, but the kernel 6.6 build doesn't boot- LAN port lights come on but no status lights on the board so I guess the support for this board is long out of date.

[Werner]

32 minutes ago, spicedreams said:

kernel 6.6 build doesn't boot

Try these:

https://fi.mirror.armbian.de/.testing/Armbian-unofficial_25.02.0-trunk_Orangepizero_bookworm_legacy_6.1.104_minimal.img.xz

https://fi.mirror.armbian.de/.testing/Armbian-unofficial_25.02.0-trunk_Orangepizero_bookworm_edge_6.12.9_minimal.img.xz

 

 

[Igor]

3 hours ago, spicedreams said:

the support for this board is long out of date.

 

I am sure you can find a kernel in Armbian repository, modern enough, to cover your needs. If this is not good enough, fix the bug, hire someone to fix the bug. Perhaps you will then understand how crazy your expectations are? Support is emotional and financial nightmare, which we have no way to cover for every hw that comes from greedy hw vendor that sets you expectations and leave this place.
 

It can always be brought back by filling roles (not just maintainer but all). We struggle to maintain Allwinner kernel and tooling that allows re-building images at any moment, with modern user-land. We don't sell anything, we rely on your (non existing) donations. Which cover 0.5% of the costs. The rest we need to cover - tell me how? For you and dirty open source copycat projects, that never contribute any fixes to common problems.

 

Vendor in question have no interest that this old board still works. You need to buy a new one ... and new one. I would very much like to help, but am already full time volunteer with a way too small crew of great people facing insane big bug / maintenance issues.

 

On 8/28/2024 at 10:01 PM, av4625 said:

Maybe this information just isn't kept

Keeping such information accurate and usable is again - expensive, logistical nightmare. If there is nobody that have spare time and is willing to do this for free, this can't exists. Remember that with what we provide now, we already struggle big time and for 99% of costs we need to cover them with 3rd party work.

[av4625]

These sorts of replies are a pity and I have had very similar ones on many of my posts on here just asking general questions. Like for example, I was looking for some info above, if it doesn't exist thats no worries but theres no harm in asking. They also likely put people off donating/contributing. But in this case a helpful reply from Werner got me the information that I needed and I am grateful. 

 

I'm sure I speak for a lot of people when I say I am super grateful for the work that you have done with Armbian and I bet its not easy to do or keep on top of for free (or even if you were paid). But it's a bit disheartening the amount of replies that contain comments about costs and about the person not contributing or whatever. We are just looking for help usually for our hobby from other like minded people that might have come across the same thing or know the answer that I don't. We aren't badmouthing you or anything to do with Armbian or demanding that you help us etc, and I'm really sorry if you felt I/we were. I'm sure you do get the odd person that isn't nice and is ignorant but I guess thats life, but I certainly wasn't being that way and I suspect that nobody above was either in this case.

 

But stuff like this isn't nice or helpful when someone is asking a question:

Quote

If this is not good enough, fix the bug, hire someone to fix the bug

 

Quote

Perhaps you will then understand how crazy your expectations are?

 

Quote

we rely on your (non existing) donations

 

Quote

The rest we need to cover - tell me how? For you and dirty open source copycat projects, that never contribute any fixes to common problems.

 

At the end of the day it is free to use (even if people are judged for not contributing) from the internet and if people have an issue they will likely ask on the forum and thats how they work together to solve/fix the problem. Theres plenty of great people on here that have helped me over the years! 

[av4625]

10 hours ago, spicedreams said:

Did you find the answer?

 

For me the link from Werner was able to show me when the board had a maintainer. I then used the last build that was in that timeframe as I imagine it is maybe a little more likely to be reliable as someone was maintaining it then and there was likely people using it more often then too. Rather than automated builds (which are great that we have) that maybe less people use.

Shortly after I bought an OrangePi Zero3 as wanted a bit more power to drive a Flutter GUI application.

[Igor]

1 hour ago, av4625 said:

thats how they work together to solve/fix the problem.

That is sadly far from reality. I can name two copycat projects that are getting from us everything and in 10 years they together made <5 fixes to common problem (less then 1 vs. 1000). Open source is a very dirty place for people that contribute. What is being worked together is within our team and few external projects that have healthy and fair attitude.

 

59 minutes ago, av4625 said:

maybe a little more likely to be reliable as someone was maintaining it then and there was likely people using it more often then too. Rather than automated builds

Those conditions has to be met:
https://docs.armbian.com/User-Guide_Board-Support-Rules/#standard-support

If everything is met, which is already a miracle, there is a "must be beneficial to the Armbian project". This term helps us fighting hardware vendors abuses - this vendor owe us substantiation amount for contracted services. We can't allow to fool us at any condition. Which are in general often damaging for open source, our and similar projects. But you usually can't understand from consumer perspective, if you don't look ... why would you? You just want that everything works.

 

Finding serious and dedicated maintainers for vendors that have abuse in the name is just impossible. I can see you are a good guy, but x % of our "customers" are total morons, few percent are total abusers and are making everything to profit from our work, contributing nothing. And by the end of the day, most people see us as guilty because shit hardware doesn't work perfectly ... as everyone (or most of people) expects.

 

1 hour ago, av4625 said:

But it's a bit disheartening the amount of replies that contain comments about costs and about the person not contributing or whatever.

Orangepi won't add "Sponsored by Armbian" or "we are stealing software support from Armbian / open source community" to their web page, so this is the only way to tell you  Don't buy from them anymore any we will be friends. They are damaging to us. And to you.

 

1 hour ago, av4625 said:

They also likely put people off donating

 

Donations never went over 0.5% of costs. I am in this for 10 years. Being super polite and friendly or being an ass. Makes no difference. It is devastating for open source developers. We need to bring 99.5% to satisfy you.

[av4625]

32 minutes ago, Igor said:

That is sadly far from reality. I can name two copycat projects that are getting from us everything and in 10 years they together made <5 fixes to common problem (less then 1 vs. 1000). Open source is a very dirty place for people that contribute. What is being worked together is within our team and few external projects that have healthy and fair attitude.

Oh I don’t doubt what you are saying about the copy cat projects! My comment was more meaning people like myself asking questions to work through and solve the problems I am having. I had a couple of great discussions with people on the zero3 Armbian thread too, helping me out.
 

37 minutes ago, Igor said:

Those conditions has to be met:
https://docs.armbian.com/User-Guide_Board-Support-Rules/#standard-support

If everything is met, which is already a miracle, there is a "must be beneficial to the Armbian project". This term helps us fighting hardware vendors abuses - this vendor owe us substantiation amount for contracted services. We can't allow to fool us at any condition. Which are in general often damaging for open source, our and similar projects. But you usually can't understand from consumer perspective, if you don't look ... why would you? You just want that everything works.

 

Finding serious and dedicated maintainers for vendors that have abuse in the name is just impossible. I can see you are a good guy, but x % of our "customers" are total morons, few percent are total abusers and are making everything to profit from our work, contributing nothing. And by the end of the day, most people see us as guilty because shit hardware doesn't work perfectly ... as everyone (or most of people) expects.

  
Oh yea I totally get how the support thing works, and it makes sense. I was just looking for releases for when there was a maintainer and I know this also provides no guarantees, and I don’t expect any. Working through an issues is part of the fun and learning for me but I guess some people will just be rude if it has the odd problem.

 

I can totally understand where you are coming from about people that just expect it to “just work”. Also the point you make about people profiting from your work, yea that would also drive me insane and tbh I don’t think if it was me I could continue to make it open source and watch that happen. But I am very thankful that you do keep it open source. 

 

43 minutes ago, Igor said:

Orangepi won't add "Sponsored by Armbian" or "we are stealing software support from Armbian / open source community" to their web page, so this is the only way to tell you  Don't buy from them anymore any we will be friends. They are damaging to us. And to you.

 

That is a real pity about OrangePi. What other manufactures would you suggest would be better to look into as there are quite a few and I’m no expert with hardware and would end up picking a bad one again lol