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Orange Pi Prime: USB problem under heavy I/O (and CPU) load

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Just for information (i know there is no support): under heavy load i have such error (for 3 times on different re-runs)

 

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Igor

Igor

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If you have internet access please provide the output of: armbianmonitor -u

grep

grep

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@Igor i've made a reboot and after that board became unaccessible via ssh (while there's still icmp-connectivity ) it's weird a bit. Need to check and fix.

 

 

 

guidol

guidol

Posted
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  On 12/10/2017 at 7:34 PM, grep said:

Looks like my USB-HDD fs is corrupted, but when i connected device with this fs to "single" usb port on board i could not see the device at all :( Is it normal ?

 

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Did you power the drive from the Orange Pi  Prime via USB or has it an external power supply?

If from USB then the power supply hasnt enough power for booth - because on heavy load the Prime need more power.

grep

grep

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@guidol Looks like you're right: power led was not "bright red", but "muted red", i've replaced USB 3.0 cable (i use external case with 3.0 interface) with USB 2.0 dual-plug cable hoping that "theoretically" (it's just an assumption) it could use power from both USB-lines attached. And it is working now.

e2fsck -f did not gave any errors.

So, do you think "2-plug USB cable" will help me, or there is a "common power circuit" for all USB on this board and i need external power supply to use for USB-HDD ?

grep

grep

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Same symptoms after reboot (icmp-availability with unability to boot from HDD). In fact this is strange: there was no such behavior before last crash.

And it was ok, after i connected it to BOOTED system.

Probably: something wrong had happended with board.

 

But looks like first of all i need to replace PSU to overcome "not enough power on boot" possible problem. I have one more (not usual "black cube with plug", but this one https://ru.aliexpress.com/item/Mini-switching-power-supply-15W-5V-3A-Single-Output-dc-power-supply-for-Led-Strip-AC110V/32800882848.html) but its TOO hot (really ~70-80 celcius deg. under load).

Can anyone help to find reliable & proven & not too hot 5V/3A PSU ?

guidol

guidol

Posted
Posted
  On 12/10/2017 at 7:57 PM, grep said:

So, do you think "2-plug USB cable" will help me, or there is a "common power circuit" for all USB on this board and i need external power supply to use for USB-HDD ?

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i dont think it would help (maybe on a Raspberry where one USB Port has a power limit).

If you got the right power-supply it can work (for a 2.5" HDD and not a 3.5" HDD) - but I would be much better if the HDD has its own power supply.

With the 2 plug-cable you could try to plug the data/power connector to the Prime and the second power only to a additional power supply.

But the best will be a seperate power supply for the drive and a normal one plug cable.

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grep

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And once again (now i used BTRFS, armbianmonitor -u = http://sprunge.us/agje ):

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PSU is this one:  https://ru.aliexpress.com/item/Mini-switching-power-supply-15W-5V-3A-Single-Output-dc-power-supply-for-Led-Strip-AC110V/32800882848.html 

The new one did not arrived yet.

But "something" makes me think that problem is not related to PSU.

 

 

zador.blood.stained

zador.blood.stained

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In the past "translation fault" errors usually indicated CPU underpowering, so IMO the best course of action would be a stress&stability test with cpuburn and xhpl, without connecting the HDD first and with the HDD conected after that. Ideally this test should be done for each available OPP (by setting the userspace governor).

grep

grep

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@zador.blood.stained

 

I suppose simultaneous run a lot of IO/CPU-intensive tasks (monerod & bitcoind threads) is like a stress-test. But, there is no stability (latest armbianmonitor -u = http://sprunge.us/hUZM ).

And line "reset high-speed USB device number 2 using ehci-platform" becomes a bit annoying. What causes "USB device reset" ? Is underpower the only reason ? Or "most likely reason because we haven't seen things like this before ?". I ordered "reference/original" PSU (it did not arrived yet) but i still think the problem is not with PSU (i used 2 different and got the same error).

Looks like next step is going to be "using external power for usb hdd" as @guidol  adviced, and, if error will happen once again,  it will reject all args for assumption "cpu underpower because of usb device".


 

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grep

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Same problem with "externally powered" HDD (I use 2-plug USB cable and power connected to separate 2.1A USB-charger; cannot post armbianmonitor -u "500 Internal server error"):

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So, @Igor @guidol @zador.blood.stained +1 to "this is not underpower caused by HDD connection"

 

Igor

Igor

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Thanks. It will be investigated when possible. 


Please use:
 

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grep

grep

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@Naguissa Max temp under load is not more then 50, usual range is ~44..48. Not too much IMHO, but need to see CPU specification (but lazy a bit ...;) )

@Igor i've set 1.1Ghz via "userspace" governor to evaluate stability with low freq (and, therefore, voltage). 

And, BTW,  http://sprunge.us/ still returns 500, for example: http://sprunge.us/hUZM (i don't know is that yours or external service, but just informing)

 

 

grep

grep

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ok, took latest with this commit (strange, but see no changes in this commit except "if-ing" & more strict checking to detect absence of  temp-sensors, but doest not matter) 

Anyway, crash with 1104MHz ( http://sprunge.us/cacb ). Reasonable to assume problems with my USB external case (thing i could test by myself)?... Will check in a couple of days.

@Igor So, unleashing 1152MHz  (instead of previous max of 1108Mhz) does not look successfull yet. At least with my board

+more: with 1104MHz & current load (monerod & bitcoind with cpulimit 200+150) i could not even perform a login via ssh until it crashed ("key exchange timeout"), so, i suppose, it was a "real-life stress-test". 

Igor

Igor

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  On 12/15/2017 at 9:52 AM, grep said:

ok, took latest with this commit

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This was referring only to a quoted problem "armbianmonitor returns 500", while the rest is a low priority. Board kernel is still in the development phase which means there is no support/you are on your own if you try to use it.

tkaiser

tkaiser

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  On 12/15/2017 at 7:51 AM, grep said:

BTW,  http://sprunge.us/ still returns 500

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When you see 'Error 500' accessing any page on sprunge.us this means always the same: Internal server error at sprunge.us (this is an online pasteboard service Armbian is only using since majority of users fails with providing log output -- so we integrated an automatic upload mechanism in Armbian that works almost all the time but sometimes not, simply try it again)

 

And you can stop flooding this thread with more and more underpowering reports since it's pointless. I also have no idea why this thread is not already in the correct subforum.

grep

grep

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  On 12/15/2017 at 10:54 AM, Igor said:


This was referring only to a quoted problem "armbianmonitor returns 500", while the rest is a low priority. Board kernel is still in the development phase which means there is no support/you are on your own if you try to use it.

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I've already got it  So, i try to do my best to solve my problems by myself with help of volunteered people around.

grep

grep

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  On 12/15/2017 at 11:11 AM, tkaiser said:

And you can stop flooding this thread with more and more underpowering reports since it's pointless. I also have no idea why this thread is not already in the correct subforum.

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Then move it to correct subforum, see no problem.

 

  On 12/15/2017 at 11:11 AM, tkaiser said:

And you can stop flooding this thread with more and more underpowering reports since it's pointless.

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This is just your  POW, nothing more, agreed ? 

I really should "hide" those walls with quoting, but in fact, there was at least two ideas based on output: about external power supply for USB-HDD and "cpu underpowering => test with lower freq".  This is "more then no support", so 1) thanks for all 2) walls are working.

And that's my opinion, and, as i guess, it does not contraversal to forum usage rules.

 

tkaiser

tkaiser

Posted
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  On 12/15/2017 at 11:21 AM, grep said:

This is just your  POW, nothing more, agreed ? 

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Feel free to waste your time further on this, I only answer in the hope that some of the 8 moderators in this forum later do what they originally wanted to do (some housekeeping to help users):

  • 'usb 3-1: reset high-speed USB device number 2 using ehci-platform' this message tells you that USB controller 3-1 lost control to device 3-2 (that's your external JMS578). Usually this is the result of undervoltage, the external disk doesn't get enough voltage (which HDD do you use? Some of them start to get in trouble when voltage drops below 4.7V, some others are even fine with 4.4V), disconnects from JMS578's SATA PHY which in turn let the JMS578 disappear from the USB bus. Reduced consumption let's the voltage rise again, the disk reappears and so the JMS578 does
  • In the meantime your filesystem is already corrupted (which is perfectly understandable if there are continous USB resets) so I would better check with 'btrfs scrub /home' now
  • If you want to switch from trial&error mode into investigation mode you need a Multimeter to check voltage available on testpoints under load and in idle
  • And if you want to solve the problem with an external disk that is not able to be powered on its own you need to provide a reliable power source able to provide a STABLE voltage and enough current (using those Y-cable and connecting them to two different power sources with different voltages available is nothing I would call 'stable power source')

 

Edit: Realized that this sounds all too harsh but I really just want you to stop wasting your time since it's really pointless. Even if OPi Prime is not supported it's IMO misleading to not tell you that you need a 3A PSU with stable voltage to do the next step. All of your symptoms are well known and with 99% probability underpowering related. So again it's pointless to spend any time on this before this common problem source is not eliminated.

tkaiser

tkaiser

Posted
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  On 12/13/2017 at 8:30 PM, grep said:

PSU is this one:  https://ru.aliexpress.com/item/Mini-switching-power-supply-15W-5V-3A-Single-Output-dc-power-supply-for-Led-Strip-AC110V/32800882848.html 

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If this thing overheats there's only one solution: do not use it. In case you want to address your problem one more time in trial&error mode check the voltage available on the screw terminals. If you measure below 5V (which I would assume) use the blue thing next to it to adjust it to 5.25V, then try again.

grep

grep

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  On 12/15/2017 at 11:41 AM, tkaiser said:

Feel free to waste your time further on this, I only answer in the hope that some of the 8 moderators in this forum later do what they originally wanted to do (some housekeeping to help users):

  • 'usb 3-1: reset high-speed USB device number 2 using ehci-platform' this message tells you that USB controller 3-1 lost control to device 3-2 (that's your external JMS578). Usually this is the result of undervoltage, the external disk doesn't get enough voltage (which HDD do you use? Some of them start to get in trouble when voltage drops below 4.7V, some others are even fine with 4.4V), disconnects from JMS578's SATA PHY which in turn let the JMS578 disappear from the USB bus. Reduced consumption let's the voltage rise again, the disk reappears and so the JMS578 does
  • In the meantime your filesystem is already corrupted (which is perfectly understandable if there are continous USB resets) so I would better check with 'btrfs scrub /home' now
  • If you want to switch from trial&error mode into investigation mode you need a Multimeter to check voltage available on testpoints under load and in idle
  • And if you want to solve the problem with an external disk that is not able to be powered on its own you need to provide a reliable power source able to provide a STABLE voltage and enough current (using those Y-cable and connecting them to two different power sources with different voltages available is nothing I would call 'stable power source')

 

Edit: Realized that this sounds all too harsh but I really just want you to stop wasting your time since it's really pointless. Even if OPi Prime is not supported it's IMO misleading to not tell you that you need a 3A PSU with stable voltage to do the next step. All of your symptoms are well known and with 99% probability underpowering related. So again it's pointless to spend any time on this before this common problem source is not eliminated.

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@tkaiser Thanks, a lot of info, need to think about all you said.

tkaiser

tkaiser

Posted
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  On 12/15/2017 at 12:34 PM, grep said:

need to think about all you said

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But please provide the requested information:

The real problem is that the average user is not aware of voltage drops and that amperage ratings printed on the PSU are less relevant (ok, often it's both -- cheap PSUs show faked amperage ratings or there is at least the following relationship: a cheap 5V/3A PSU either provides 5V or 3A since if a device really would want to draw 3A the voltage already dropped to such low levels that the device to be powered crashed due to undervoltage).

 

In case your PSU is adjusted to provide less than 5V and you use tiny wires between PSU and board every single symptom you report is just the well known and pretty common undervoltage problem no normal user is willing to accept :) (and that's what this subforum should serve for: giving a nice overview of 'real life underpowering stories' for other users to read through and learn from -- but if threads aren't readable any more due to confusion spread and walls of text for no reason this subforum becomes as useless as every piece of instructions we provide since no one ever will read them)

grep

grep

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  On 12/15/2017 at 12:49 PM, tkaiser said:

Which HDD are you using (it's important since different brands behave differently wrt undervoltage)

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SSD Samsung 850 Pro 512 Gb (...please don't remind me about "hunting squirrel with a howitzer"). Did no try to search deep, but official specification (https://www.samsung.com/us/system/consumer/product/mz/7k/e2/mz7ke256bw/850PRO.pdf) says (for "active" state) V = "5", Power = 3.5W (5Vx0.75A, as i assume); ok, let them lie and it's 7.5W under load (5Vx1.5A); i have a USB-charger with 2.1A (let it lie too, and there are only 1.7-1.8A which is enough). BUT: i also do have a SATA2USB with"unknown power characteristics" (so, there are at least 2 points to measure Voltage/Amp: SATA OUT to SSD, USB-IN to SATA2USB) and first one is "not the easiest thing to measure"

  On 12/15/2017 at 12:49 PM, tkaiser said:

How do you really power your board? On the led strip PSU there's only a screw terminal. What is connected to this and how do the cable diameters look like?

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PSU screw terminal <=> two thick wires taken from "standard black computer PSU power connector internals"  <=> twist, covered with insulating tape <=> two a bit thiner (but thick enough) wires ended with 1.7mm jack (cut from 3A PSU). All wires are thick enough IMHO, but i agreed, that real voltage/amp level is a subject to check (potential losses / additional resistance in points of twist i hope are negligible because of "contact surface length" which is formed as ~10mm of "naked" wire from each side )

 

I will try to measure voltage and amperage under load, but it will take a while.

 

P.S. +I also ordered Odroid-HDR-HC1 (because i just want things to work) so, maybe OPiPrime will be added to my collection of "things that just does not work out-of-the-box as needed for me" 

tkaiser

tkaiser

Posted
Posted
  On 12/15/2017 at 1:39 PM, grep said:

(https://www.samsung.com/us/system/consumer/product/mz/7k/e2/mz7ke256bw/850PRO.pdf) says (for "active" state) V = "5", Power = 3.5W (5Vx0.75A, as i assume); ok, let them lie and it's 7.5W under load (5Vx1.5A); i have a USB-charger with 2.1A (let it lie too, and there are only 1.7-1.8A which is enough)

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Hmm... you're focused on amperage/consumption but why? The specs talk about 'Standard Operating Voltage 5V ± 5%' and that's the most important sentence there: 4.75V is the minimum allowed according to these specs and 5.25V is the maximum. So in case your PSU is currently adjusted to 4.7V you're well below specs. You use a PSU with adjustable 5V output voltage so which voltage do you feed your board with? Unless you're able to answer this question it's really absolutely pointless to do any further step in any direction...

 

Besides that: I've always 3 Samsung SSDs flying around for tests only and they all run fine with just 4.5V (but none of them is a 'Pro', it's all cheap EVO stuff). One of those, the EVO750, is somewhat nasty since with this SSD I can power down every Micro USB powered board connected with an insufficient cable to the PSU. This thing seems to have an insanely high peak consumption at startup which then leads to either a huge voltage drop or consumption peak on the DC-IN input line immediately killing each board I tried with already. Works of course fine when powered from a separate PSU.

 

PS: I really start to hate this SBC crap... https://linux-sunxi.org/Xunlong_Orange_Pi_Prime (no one took the time to add a device page with PCB pictures so we could look for voltage testpoints)

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