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  1. Like
    pfeerick reacted to tkaiser in Improve 'Support over Forum' situation   
    This might work in case of a read-only rootfs (as a clear indication of 'something's wrong with SD card since if this happens already at the first boot there can be only one reason for it). Catching this type of error also allows from then on dealing with forum posts that talk about 'Authentication error' since then it's users not getting how to change root passwd.
    The other problem -- underpowering -- we can not detect and provide a nice notification and some polite guidance since on the vast majority of boards we can not measure voltage/current. IMO it's way better to create a worst case scenarion already at first boot (starting cpuburn from firstrun task and do a 'pkill cpuburn' at the end of it) so boards that suffer from severe underpowering simply will never boot unless this problem is fixed. With boards using shitty DC-IN connectors it will look simply like this: a nice boot/crash cycle or just a freeze.
    At least Armbian will refuse to boot on such a device so the user will not waste his time with an instable Armbian freezing/crashing later, then already adding more instabilities to rootfs gone corrupted so the user will not even be able to learn that once he fixed powering something improves since Armbian running off a corrupted rootfs will still crash/freeze or at least behave erratic/instable.
    This won't work great in the beginning. But after some time this will be simply a measure of quick check. User will ask eg in Tinkerboard forum why he runs in instabilities and mods and other users will immediately recommend 'Burn Armbian with Etcher, if it does not boot you have a powering issue that needs to be resolved first'. Care to remember how much time and efforts it took to promote Etcher here and there? In the meantime it's getting recommended by many more people around and in 2018 no one will even think about using Win32DiskImager any more. But it takes some time, people even get angry about stubborn guys like me repeating that over and over again and there's always one who has to make the first step. 
    That's good but again I see I couldn't make my point. It's about a PSYCHOLOGICAL ISSUE. Preventing users (especially the smart ones) running in a 'them vs me' situation since many people seem to be offended by that which prevents them thinking calmly about the real issue.
    Collecting various user threads here and there that are short and understandable is something completely different than a forum post made by a moderator. Let's call it success stories: people who report weird failures, get Etcher / SD card recommendation, come back immediately with 'That made it!'. If we have at least 10 of them instead of lenghty explanations no one reads or wants to accept it's simply a pinned two liner like this 'Please be aware that crappy SD cards (example, example, example, example, example, example, example, example, example, example) and insufficient power supply (example, example, example, example, example, example, example, example, example, example) are reason N° 1 why things are failing' (example all the time just the link to such a success story).
    Then it's not a 'them vs me' issue but turns into a 'me being part of the same community and learning from other's mistakes'.
  2. Like
    pfeerick reacted to tkaiser in Improve 'Support over Forum' situation   
    Wasted a bit time over there so that link might qualify for 'success story' collection too. Re-opening original thread would be the better idea though.
  3. Like
    pfeerick got a reaction from tkaiser in [Example] Support proposal for ROCK64   
    Done. I had been avoiding this as I didn't want to edit the original post (in the new split thread) which was the only way I know of to contextualise the thread on this forum system. However, I've done that, and the new thread is here. I think I've pulled all the more board specific posts out, leaving this thread to focus on the proposal.
  4. Like
    pfeerick reacted to tkaiser in Improve 'Support over Forum' situation   
    Thank you for confirming! In other words: you totally missed what's that all about. I was talking about current situation (everyone with commit rights to Armbian repo decides on his own when to start supporting a new board) and I proposed a change to that. A developer (not forum moderator) wanting to add support for a new board should requires him to 
    outline the reasons why he wants to support a new board and which level of support he thinks the device deserves collects available resources so other devs save some time so they don't have to search the net first weighs pros/cons from both a developer and 'average Armbian user' perspective And the main reason to start with something like that is not to ease board bring up BUT EXACTLY THE OPPOSITE! Establish a process/protocol a dev has to follow that requires at least some thoughts why it's worth the efforts especially if we should decide that the board deserves full support status later. And you're asking for templates! You can't substitute the results of using your brain with templates (same with this boilerplate BS you're constantly recommending to me). It's all about understanding/consensus and nothing can be handled with templates (that's why I titled the ROCK64 thread with 'Example' since it could look like this if another dev wants to propose adding a new board but of course it can also look like this depending on the thoughts and what the purpose is)
    You calling yourself the agile sprint type (the 'doer') most probably won't notice that running in the wrong direction isn't really smart (same with you having the ability to edit posts -- a person who doesn't even get why there is something written should really never ever edit stuff. Same with your personal reaction to this -- again a proof that you've not the slightest idea what's going on!)
    For the others: We could have another 'SD card was the issue' result:
    And zero responses to 'preventing boards to boot when rootfs is read-only and executing cpuburn-a7 or cpuburn-a53 as part of firstrun crashing/freezing underpowered boards' reminds me why I consider this babbling here a waste of time.
  5. Like
    pfeerick reacted to Bubba in Improve 'Support over Forum' situation   
    Forum does look "cleaner"..
    There will always be those who join and post without searching / reading, general... are a lazy bunch, and those with a little tech knowledge, think ….
    Hey we are “special” and any tech issue we are having can not be anything WE are doing / not doing wrong, so it must be the software / hardware..
    Right, I mean come on I got X number of years this so I must be right.
    You must FORCE us provide the info. needed to help us, get us to READ the docs and How to’s.
    The more effort you make us put into solving our own problems... the more we learn.
    Because I used cheap SD cards for weeks without issue, once a issue came up, I dismissed the SD as the possible problem because it had never been an issue before,
    and I JUST KNEW it could not be...well you know what happened….wasted hours of time...time I do not have much of…
    By not listening to the folks here.. who know what’s what’s….I broke one of my basic rules….
    “You must learn from other people’s mistakes. You can’t possibly live long enough to make them all yourself.”
    Sam Levenson
  6. Like
    pfeerick got a reaction from lanefu in Improve 'Support over Forum' situation   
    Sounds nice in principle, but I'm with Zador... Christmas tree clutter, and just makes things more confusing to newcomers, who are the ones who are the ones most likely to post stuff in the wrong place. Enough moderators who pay attention (duly slapped by Igor and Thomas) make this a relative non-issue. But please keep the suggestions coming!
  7. Like
    pfeerick reacted to zador.blood.stained in Improve 'Support over Forum' situation   
    IMO this would make the forum look like a christmas tree with different colored tags and still won't stop people from posting things not really related to Armbian or in wrong forum sections.
  8. Like
    pfeerick reacted to Igor in Improve 'Support over Forum' situation   
    Keep it minimalist and keep in mind that wall of text is never / rarely read, especially not by those which we are addressing

    Not very much familiar, have to study more, but we need more than only my point of view ... since its a forum plugin and very integrated, it should be simple to adopt and migrate. I notice it's one click job for making existing tutorials into this subsystem. Moderators will get another option: "Make this post tutorial".
  9. Like
    pfeerick reacted to Igor in Improve 'Support over Forum' situation   
    What about joining those two into one general notice /
    announcement, which are present on the top of each topic and can be defined per groups and per forums. It's kind of repeating this over and over again. Probably more effective than pinned post?

  10. Like
    pfeerick reacted to tkaiser in How to select a good board, processor?   
    What is way more important is to understand how the physical environment affects thermal readouts especially in the Pinebook. There PMIC and SoC are both attached with thermal pads to a metal plate. When the Pinebook charges, the PMIC gets very hot and transfers this heat over to the SoC, so SoC temperatures seem to increase for no reason and people are scared. In general it's the old story about data vs information. People love numbers (since easy to compare), love graphs (since nice looking) but don't like information (need to switch on the brain).
    So what does monitoring provides? Data but no information. You need to have some knowledge to make use of it, in this case about PMIC+SoC placement.
    This RPi-Monitor stuff is great for developing good settings (as we did last year for H3 and A64 devices, this year it was just a quick check if we can throw Allwinner's Pinebook settings away and replace with the way better Pine64 settings community developed last year) but once this is done it's not that useful anymore unless you want to experiement yourself (testing out different heatsinks or cooling solutions for an enclosure for example)
    BTW: position of the CPU cores matters wrt temperature sensor: (A64 is more or less a H3 with exchanged CPU cores and crippled USB)
    This is not related to GPU/Mali400 (this Mali crap is useless with A64 anyway). Allwinner's video engine is doing this stuff, we can use HW accelerated video decoding on A64 since March 2016 (even if over in Pine64 land still some believe they need 'the Mali' for that), we were able to use hardware accelerated video encoding a few months later. Temperatures increase just by a few degree: (video engine in H3 and A64 is exactly the same, at the top of that thread you also find a nice example why Allwinner's defaults are so shitty and why it matters to replace them with community settings)
  11. Like
    pfeerick reacted to tkaiser in How to select a good board, processor? (but useless anyway, this Mali400 bullshit is of no interest since there's no use case for Mali400 on this platform! But I guess it will take until 2018 until everyone over in Pine64 land will be cured from the stupid Mali hype so many are still suffering from)
  12. Like
    pfeerick reacted to martinayotte in Improve 'Support over Forum' situation   
    Of course, not ...
  13. Like
    pfeerick reacted to lanefu in Improve 'Support over Forum' situation   
    I can see where there's situations where a communication might need some formality.   To me that a pinned post or a locked post probably achieves that.    Coming from the spirit of @tkaisers concerns about censorship, and avoid policing presence... I would be adverse to encouraging people to qualify their posts as coming from a moderator.   
    Moderation vs. Mediation ( at least my version of it )
    The terminology of Moderator is kind of an unfortunate standard.   I really wish forum culture had "administrators" and "mediators."   We need Administrators/Moderators to  support the mechanics of the forum...  Help with maintaining hierarchy, fix stupid, etc--- but that authority during a problematic topic is where Mediation is needed not Moderation.
    The spirit of a mediator is a neutral party that is there keep opposing parties moving, and not because of authority, but because of reputation.   Peacekeepers don't need badges.
  14. Like
    pfeerick reacted to lanefu in Improve 'Support over Forum' situation   
    I've been tracking this thread for a few days, and been trying to get caught up.
    So lots of good ideas have been posted about things to do and improvements that can be made, however they do feel like solutions to problems that haven't clearly been defined.   It may be worth a moment to take a step back to make sure we're focusing on the right challenges.
    I've gone through most of the posts and tried to identify the spirit of the problems they appear to be speaking to.    Here's what I identified....please share thoughts and other observations:
    Forum Challenges that need improvement
    * No defined censorship policy
    * Eliminate spam posts (solved by having more moderators)
    * Tutorials hard to find
    * Poorly formatted / difficult to read posts
    * General Forum Structure not intuitive
    * Forum Structure unclear for supported vs unsupported hardware
    * Need differentiation for type of development threads
    * Home for reviews unclear
    * Homes needed for off-topic / tertiary projects
    * Need a way to minimize repeated questions and unproductive newbie questions
    * No policy for abandoned single post threads (old thread, 0 replies)
    * Heated discussions going too far into negative space
  15. Like
    pfeerick reacted to martinayotte in ROCK64   
    I've copied the same xenial mate into eMMC, tweak the /boot/extlinux/extlinux.conf to point to mmcblk1, and now it boot from eMMC.
  16. Like
    pfeerick reacted to martinayotte in ROCK64   
    Welcome !
    I had to manually use parted and resize2fs to get all it's space ...
  17. Like
    pfeerick reacted to TonyMac32 in ROCK64   
    That extra 10/100 ethernet seems like a good place to put an HDHomerun if you were running a TVHeadend server...
  18. Like
    pfeerick reacted to tkaiser in ROCK64   
    Yes, this needs to be solved first, we should also wait whether there's one DRAM initialization solution for all 3 DRAM variants since dealing with users reporting bricked boards since downloading the wrong OS image is just boring.
    On a related note wrt kernel version: TL Lim introduced a few guys a week ago to Kever being some sort of an open source activity representative at RK (most probably I got it wrong, doesn't matter that much since at least he knows who's in charge of what at RK solving issues). Yesterday I informed them about promising USB3 performance but also 'I think we need to add a quirk for UAS to work reliably, please compare with dmesg output 'ERROR Transfer event for disabled endpoint or incorrect stream ring' ( and Hans de Goede's approach for a similar problem with an older ARM SoC who's most probably using an older version of the same USB3 IP as now in RK3328.'
    Let's wait and see. What I expect is a fix first in their BSP kernel but then also submitting patches upstream so we can tick the 'USB3/UAS working flawlessly' checkbox soon.
  19. Like
    pfeerick reacted to zador.blood.stained in ROCK64   
    I mean as long as u-boot, SPL and DRAM configuration and issues are solved, it doesn't really matter what kernel to try - pure mainline or 4.4 BSP.
  20. Like
    pfeerick reacted to zador.blood.stained in Banana Pi R2   
    First, let me make a guess and say that you are representing Mediatek here. Then - welcome.
    Second, to summarize and rephrase @tkaiser's quite emotinal posts in this thread:
    Armbian is not about building OS images for any available board (that we can get in our hands), it's about level of support that we try to provide to our users. This level of support depends on the level of support the board maker can provide to the community (including the Armbian team). 
    Also when deciding to support a board, we are trying to evaluate different factors, including software support status (kernel, u-boot, additional libraries), quality of documentation, board pricing compared to similar devices on the market, etc.
    MT7623N can be a good SoC for a NAS or a router board, it can even be very good if it will have competitive pricing for board makers and good software support from the SoC vendor. But here it's up to the board maker (sinovoip) to make a good use of all SoC features, to provide correct documentation (like board schematics, PCB size and position of mounting holes), to advertise the board to their end users properly by releasing correct specifications, to support their end users by releasing good enough software images. Will all of this happen? Judging by the previous boards released by them, higly unlikely.
    Will there be Armbian images for boards based on Mediatek SoCs? Possible.
    Will there be official supported Armbian images for the Banana Pi R2? Probably not, unless this board doesn't have any design flaws and gets full mainline support before it is too late.
  21. Like
    pfeerick reacted to tkaiser in Banana Pi R2   
    That's not really a problem. Even if their drunken copy&paste monkey responsible for this nonsense collected on Gitbook is able to write 6 different powering options here and there anyone will get that it's 12V/2A with the usual 5.5/2.1mm barrel plug. It will only be annoying for those who order the R2 together with their usual PSU (4.4/1.6mm barrel plug and wrong voltage) since then they can throw the PSU away (but hey, since Sinovoip sold something someone at least made some money!).
    They're also talking about a 'PoE option' (Power over Ethernet -- not documented since... why?) and according to schematic PHY0 (that's the WAN port combined with external Magnetics) can be used for that combined with an optional 'PoE' module (active so full GbE can be used). Two more questions immediately come to my mind:
    If the above 'specs' of 12V/2A are real then we're clearly not talking about PoE (IEEE 802.3af, limited to ~13W max in reality) but PoE+ instead (IEEE 802.3at, limited to ~22W in reality) If the PoE+ option can only be used with the WAN port what topologies do they have in mind? 'Simple' PoE+ injectors are fucking expensive, the injector has to be placed where the other end of the WAN cable will be inserted (modem? Gbit modem? WTF?). That's just brain damaged.  
  22. Like
    pfeerick reacted to chwe in Banana Pi R2   
    but you're still their Nr.1  (sry for the off-topic)
    IMO it 'sounds' like a nice product from the product page, so a lot of server ideas will come up by various users. I'm not really interested in server applications on a SBC and my knowledge on this field is more than limited (I'm more the IoT intrested guy, than the server guy). But my main question is, compared to boards that are still on market, is there really a benefit compared to other boards on hardware side? Imagine every thing will work properly on software side. Will the comunity have a (real) benefit compared to other boards? Since it seems a lot of work to get this board to work (SoC without that much community support in the past etc.), I think weighting the benefits compared to the workload should be kept in mind.

  23. Like
    pfeerick reacted to tkaiser in Banana Pi R2   
    That they ignore the meaning of 'open source' (or maybe simply don't understand what this means) is only part of the problem.
    The people who try to help those brain damaged retards now for over 2 years still know what a shit show situation with 'the predecessor' Lamobo R1 was: you couldn't use a SATA disk, you couldn't use the network switch, there was not a single usable OS image and documenation was totally lacking (details with sources -- someone has my post unhidden and I don't think they'll delete my post another time). You could not make any use of this paperweight in the beginning and it took community unnecessarily long to fix all their stupid mistakes since they did not only not cooperate but were actively sabotaging our efforts (schematics have been released a year after the product went to market).
    We know about MTK that (just until recently?) you didn't get sources from them unless you signed an NDA (preventing you from sharing/opening the sources) and these NDAs are pretty expensive.
    Given the great reputation of this vendor, the amazing history of fails and their documented willingness to cheat on you as much as they can: why should we believe them they will open up sources? That's one of the most basic requirements to be able to just evaluate whether we want to invest time and efforts on this device or not.
    But they do not even get why opening sources is important. Same with their understanding of 'documentation'. If I look today through the results of their drunken copy&paste monkey sitting on his keyboard and biting into the mouse (considering this 'writing technical documentation') then depending on which part of this 'documentation' I consult I get R2 power requirements that read either 12V/2A, 5V/2A or even just 5V/700mA and the power connector is either 5.5/2.1mm barrel, 4.4/1.6mm barrel or Micro USB. And it would take you insane amounts of time and efforts to get this information corrected since between you spotting the obvious mistake and their 'technical documentation' a brain damaged retard is sitting preventing any improvements.
    Do we want to support devices where it's hard to get even most basic required information? Where technical documentation is just wrong all the times and will never get fixed?
    Especially if we compare with other hardware vendors who don't behave like retards all day long. FriendlyELEC for example releases a new piece of hardware. Usually their engineers at the same time update the device's wiki page with schematics already released and of course version history. It takes just a single public complaint and their CEO writes you an email asking for details. You show them numbers, explain shortly what UAS is and why that matters, they phase out the old product and within 4 weeks there's a new and improved one.
    You explain to FriendlyELEC people shortly why they should drop support for shitty old Allwinner kernels and use mainline kernel instead, CEO understands immediately that he doesn't understand details (not affected by Dunning-Kruger!), so their kernel dev is in CC:, it's easy to convince him to focus on mainline kernel and how to get there (just a few emails between Icenowy, me and them). In parallel you write the CEO that their kernel dev needs some time so please no pressure on him and days later we're here: (still not perfect, but everything happens in the open, even 'community peer review' works as it should)
    That's the difference between board vendors who respect and cooperate with community and able to learn/improve and brain damaged retards that do not even understand how horribly they actively hinder community to help them.
  24. Like
    pfeerick reacted to tkaiser in Boot Orange PI One from USB   
    Sure, it requires you knowing what you do, an Armbian image you have to 'disassemble' yourself, then write the relevant parts to SD card, partition the USB device and follow the steps nand-sata-install is doing. You'll most probably fail a few times but will finally succeed if you have some technical understanding. In way less time you can also write the image to SD card, boot it and run nand-sata-install the usual way
    BTW: In the past I thought multiple times about starting to work on something that would allow to do exactly what you want but everytime decided against since waste of resources. Wrt boot situation we could already convince a few board makers to start to solder relevant amounts of SPI NOR flash to their devices. Goal is to ship SBC with a device specific boot loader in the SPI NOR flash so OS images can be device agnostic and living anywhere (SD card, eMMC, USB stick, network, whatever). And yeah, that's a long-term goal still 'a bit' away
    From an Armbian perspective something that would really be desirable would be a 'forked' nand-sata-install that is able to clone installations (the average user will call this 'backup') to allow people to insert another SD card in a card reader, call 'clone-armbian' and get a bootable clone on the external SD card 'just in case'. But when thinking about this such a cloning functionality living in initrd would be better since then able to work 100% perfectly.
  25. Like
    pfeerick reacted to Igor in Banana Pi R2
    There is one router board based on similar (but I guess different enough) chip, but it's also not very well supported.
    There are (only) few ARM based NAS / router boards which are good enough to consider dealing with: Clearfog pro, base and upcoming Espressobin. Serious (open source oriented) vendors would stay away from Mediatek chips in first place.