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NanoPi Duo 2

TonyMac32

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TonyMac32

TonyMac32

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CNX software gave me the heads up on it, https://www.friendlyarm.com/index.php?route=product/product&product_id=244

 

More or less looks like a Duo with the following adjustments:

 

256 --> 512 MB RAM base

H2+ --> H3  (uncertain why this matters on a DIP package)

Garbage Wifi --> AP6212

 

Other than WiFi I'm not sure I see a huge reason to go for one over the other.  If you're building around a dual-inline package, multimedia is probably low on priorities.  On the bright side, supporting this should be trivial if there's a demand, it should more or less only require a device tree for the wifi. 

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NicoD

NicoD

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Perfect for some of my projects. Cheap security cam with possiblity of sending a message when there's movement.
Also for an outdoor energy station/weather station that I'm building. My Arduino nano makes a solar panel follow the sun the whole day. In bad weather it gets covered up for protection. In the evening it could turn on the Duo2 and send all gathered data to a smart phone.
Could do without, but who doesn't love some extra features.

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TonyMac32

TonyMac32

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I guess for a dual inline I personally don't care about wireless.  If I need wireless I can grab a NEO air, so the point was the wireless is only so much of an improvement, I very much like the form factor and use it for random gadgets, I'm only pointing out that for someone looking to upgrade, be aware the wireless is the upgrade, nothing else in real terms, so if you want to save a little money you can stick with the original.

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guidol

guidol

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3 hours ago, Igor_K said:

@guidol I see.  It makes sense. It is compatible with a shield board most likely. 
PS What a weird sense of humor 🤦🏻‍♂️ check out pinout diagrams of duo and duo2 

I think they did a copy&paste of the options from the NanoPi Duo, because the Mini-Shield for the normal Duo can interface with a halfsize M2-SSD and the new IOT-Shield for the NanoPi Duo2 cant.

Duo Mini-Shield: http://wiki.friendlyarm.com/wiki/index.php/Mini_Shield_for_NanoPi_Duo

Duo2 IOT-Shield: http://wiki.friendlyarm.com/wiki/index.php/NanoPi_Duo2_IoT-Box 

 

So I dont know what a  weird sense of humor it should be :)

 

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Tido

Tido

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3 hours ago, TonyMac32 said:

but the quad-core ARM is going to be able to do a lot more processing and has way more memory.

I agree, but look at the board. You must have a "Carrier Board" otherwise it is basically useless. In other words, it is useless you can buy right away a board with the necessary connectors, and this is cheaper as well. For example Orange Pi Zero H2+  or the OPi PC with voltage regulator  do you see my point?

 

That said, for what you can do with a nanopi-duo-2  if you buy it without "Carrier Board"  you rather spend $ 5.- on  TTGO T1.   And if you need processing and memory the two above are the better options (your milage may vary).

And this is what I meant before by writing:

Quote

isn't it too expensive for what it is?

 

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Igor_K

Igor_K

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@guidol I suspected that but I've just received the confirmation from FriendlyArm 
 

Quote

Yes，the NanoPi Duo2  is compatible with Mini Shield for NanoPi Duo，the GPIO of  NanoPi Duo2  are the same as  NanoPi Du o but NanoPi Duo2 is longer than NanoPi Duo about 5mm

1


So a Mini Shield can be used with a the model as well.  


I'm too lazy to copy-paste images here but when I tried to compare pinout diagrams of duo and duo2 there have been flipped upside down. So even an image editor would not help me to compare them. Check the images. 

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chwe

chwe

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On 10/24/2018 at 10:12 PM, Tido said:

I agree, but look at the board. You must have a "Carrier Board" otherwise it is basically useless. In other words, it is useless you can buy right away a board with the necessary connectors, and this is cheaper as well. For example Orange Pi Zero H2+  or the OPi PC with voltage regulator  do you see my point?

I don't think so, IMO the nanopi duo was somehow 'useless' due to crappy wifi. So without a carrier board you didn't had a sane solution to drive it headless. AP6212 will fix this mostly. Having a board which is breadboard capable by default makes it quite easy to set up some testing. And once your small 'pet project' works as expected you can even solder it to something like this:

Stripboardexample.jpg

or you etch your custom pcb for a few bucks (it's a way cheaper than it was in the past). Those RPi compatible headers always need an adapter or a custom made adapter or PCB to get it usable for such tasks. Still wonder why breadboard like hats aren't default for all those boards. IMO something like this:

20110965_3.jpg

should be in every boardmakers store by default (with the default size for their RPi a like boards). Sell them for 5 bucks each and you'll sell a bunch of them. ;)

Don't get me wrong, the ESP32 is a great board (especially some of the drawbacks on the ESP8266 were properly solved, e.g 512kb ram is a great enhancement for micro-python on it). It's even possible now to have somehow a 'nice' web-interface on it. Storing data on the SPI 'somehow' works but it's not as convenient as on a 'average Armbian board'. My ESPs mostly cache data only for a short time and then send them over mqtt to a linux machine where you've great frameworks for handling those data.. most of it would be possible with an ESP as well (there's not much fancy numbers crushing) but I'm simply to lazy to program such stuff in micro-python or 'C++' (aka arduino for ESPs). As soon as you want a more enhanced web-interface you're soon getting to the ESPs limits (e.g. user authentication, graphs, getting out logs - everything is possible, but it needs a lot of work to achieve). Storing on SD-Cards on ESPs is somehow archaic.. :P It works but my I like to pull data from my stuff without rejecting the SD-Card and doing this on ESPs is IMO hacky.

 

On 10/23/2018 at 5:48 AM, TonyMac32 said:

256 --> 512 MB RAM base

H2+ --> H3  (uncertain why this matters on a DIP package)

Garbage Wifi --> AP6212

+ camera interface

 

To summarize, it's a BPi-M2-Zero with different pinheader... :ph34r::lol:

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Tido

Tido

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6 hours ago, chwe said:

AP6212 will fix this mostly.

I think I read about problems with AP6212 too, isn't it?

 

Well, looking at your bread board I stil get the impression: Mit Kanonen auf Spatzen schiessen (Shoot sparrows with cannons).

These HAT prevent airflow for the oversized SoC for the task.

The TTGO T1 ESP32 comes with an SDcard on the backside, so it can store much more and transfer when you are ready. Not to mention the 4MB flash.

 

6 hours ago, chwe said:

As soon as you want a more enhanced web-interface

Now you are mixing things, doing measurements or controlling some tasks is a totally different use case to a Web-Interface.  And this is what I already wrote above so I spare you to repeat.

However, I just flashed a Sonoff Basic. Beautiful simple Web-Interface, lots of function, blazingly fast.

 

If you are to lazy to write a program, that won't change in any regard ;-)

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chwe

chwe

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13 minutes ago, Tido said:
6 hours ago, chwe said:

AP6212 will fix this mostly.

I think I read about problems with AP6212 too, isn't it?

bluetooth is messes up, but people mostly don't care.. compared to xr819 it's a great enhancement.

 

13 minutes ago, Tido said:

These HAT prevent airflow for the oversized SoC for the task.

obviously you can't run at highest clockrates with such an hat, but quick and dirty prototyping is a way easier., and that's where this little guy shines, you don't need to cover the board if you plan to build a custom prototype? See why people like it? :P

13 minutes ago, Tido said:

The TTGO T1 ESP32 comes with an SDcard on the backside, so it can store much more and transfer when you are ready. Not to mention the 4MB flash.

I know, I've all different sorts of ESP32s laying around.. some with lora, some with sdcards displays battery holder..

 

13 minutes ago, Tido said:

Now you are mixing things, doing measurements or controlling some tasks is a totally different use case to a Web-Interface.  And this is what I already wrote above so I spare you to repeat.

it saves you one node.. :D simple as that.. My orange pi in the lab is attached to the balance.. which has a crappy serial protocol which can easiest be handled with linux (indeed you could write a 'driver' for it micro-python as well, but why when somebody already did it for linux? and besides handling my balance it also collects all the data from my ESPs here and there.. I want a web-interface for my data.. and logs as well.. such stuff is a way easier with linux than with any ESP framework. Besides one syringe-pump, all those devices are 'passive' (I don't do any PID stuff cause I don't trust my programming skills to make such stuff failsave.. :D for PID I would probably go for a micro-controller with C++ again to ensure it doesn't hang at the wrong moment).

So no, those two use-cases are not fully independent. Normally they came together. Data without visualization is garbage.. The reason I collect data is to visualize them (in 'real-time').. So that I can spend my time with doing something else and monitoring them from my computer instead of sitting next to my reactions and look the whole time to a boring thermometer.

31 minutes ago, Tido said:

Not to mention the 4MB flash.

did you ever wrote logs to this SPI? I tried it, before I decided it's not worth my time dealing with it.. For sure my ESPs could do a way more that simple dumping data via mqtt, but it's a way more convenient to do it on linux.

 

39 minutes ago, Tido said:

 

If you are to lazy to write a program, that won't change in any regard ;-)

with a slightly difference that for most stuff I need, somebody wrote a python or c/c++ driver for linux.. so.. guess why I don't have the balance on an ESP? Somebody wrote a nice python interface for it.. Porting it to micro-python may be possible.. but why should I waste my time? the goal is to use it ASAP not to have the most lightweight solution which is able to do the job (whenever possible, but I'm pragmatic here.. it's not worth my time to port this module as long as I've solution which works out of the box). Monitoring interface for ESPs are possible.. but something like node-red just gives me what I want without even understanding how the whole framework works.

Ideas where such a board could be cool:

  • CAN bus on cars
  • some archaic old lab analysis devices where you've a combination of RS232 and 0-12V analog output for controlling and the signal (back in those days you had to buy an 'integrator' which mostly was to expensive so people had plotters cut out the signals and weight the mass of the paper compared to the other signals - and that's not a joke I did this more than once for an crappy old device nobody had software for anymore... :lol: But you need RS232 for starting the measurement as well
  • some sorts of fish-tank computers, you want data and visualization (and maybe also some sort of a warning system over mail, phone, messenger in case you can afford a dissolved oxygen probe)
  • some sort of security camera with some relays to turn on lights or whatever..
  • with the right drivers probably a 3d printer as well? Maybe you've to tweak it to be RT but well.. why not?
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NicoD

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6 hours ago, chwe said:

Having a board which is breadboard capable by default makes it quite easy to set up some testing. And once your small 'pet project' works as expected you can even solder it to something like this:

Indeed, that's what I'm planning to do. Making a costum hat for it with only the things I need.
Got one comming. Also the new hat. So I'll be able to review both. I'll also see to get a camera for it to see how well it does as security cam.

I've got a lot esp32's, esp8266's, arduino's... This will be a lot more powerful and versatile. That is if it all works as expected.

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Tido

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46 minutes ago, chwe said:

My orange pi in the lab is attached to the balance..

besides handling my balance it also collects all the data from my ESPs here and there..

never mind, but to me you kind of confirm what I wrote. The SBC collects the data from the IoT and does the visualisation.  The NanoPi Duo 2 comes with NULL connectors to use it for visualisation unless you get the "Carrier Board" .. and I am already repeating myself that you are better of with something like: Orange Pi Zero H2+  or the OPi PC with voltage regulator.

So, instead of spending $20.- for a NanoPi Duo 2, I rather spend it for a 'complete' board like the OPi PC. Do you see my point? 

 

And, and! if I need the formfactor (IoT) of a NanoPi Duo 2, I rather take a TTGO T1.  No rule without exception.

 

55 minutes ago, NicoD said:

Making a costum hat for it with only the things I need.

I am already looking forward how you need a H3 for your tasks, must be heavy lifting...   btw, just yesterday I read about multitasking on Arduino, over at Adafruit.

 

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NicoD

NicoD

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1 hour ago, Tido said:

I am already looking forward how you need a H3 for your tasks, must be heavy lifting...  

Thank you for your interest. ;)

1 hour ago, Tido said:

btw, just yesterday I read about multitasking on Arduino, over at Adafruit.

I'll look into that. Could be very helpful. I'm wondering how they implemented it. Thanks

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NicoD

NicoD

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1 hour ago, Tido said:

btw, just yesterday I read about multitasking on Arduino, over at Adafruit.

It's quite cool. Not really multitasking. But instead of using delay what stops everything you check if the time has passed long enough to start a task. So you can do other tasks during that waiting time.
But when a task is busy you can't start another task. That 2nd task will start when the 1st task is done.

Very simple but effective. Why didn't anybody come up with this earlier?

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chwe

chwe

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4 minutes ago, Tido said:

never mind, but to me you kind of confirm what I wrote. The SBC collects the data from the IoT and does the visualisation.  The NanoPi Duo 2 comes with NULL connectors to use it for visualisation

 

I assume it comes with SPI, so.. testing a small display on breadboard is easy.. And my famous balance example.. normally I need the measured weights when I write lab journal on my normal computer.. so, display is not really needed on the balance.. it still has one.. I just need it stored.. It somehow replaces the god old paper..  :D okay I'm working on a RFID implementation as well.. but that's just to have some sort of an inventory system but that's future..

 

12 minutes ago, Tido said:

I am already looking forward how you need a H3 for your tasks, must be heavy lifting...   btw, just yesterday I read about multitasking on Arduino, over at Adafruit.

as soon as you integrate area under signals a regular python makes things a way easier.. python has cool modules for such funny stuff. Indeed a bunch of this stuff could be achieved with ESPs but you must be somehow a masochist to do it.

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TonyMac32

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7 hours ago, Tido said:

btw, just yesterday I read about multitasking on Arduino, over at Adafruit.

 

You can multitask with more or less anything that can handle a stack and save context:  http://www.z80.info/multtask.htm

 

At one point I had written a Java z80 emulator from scratch and built a tiny fixed-task multitasking demo to run on it.  Lost to history, and useless since it was written in that garbage excuse for a language.  I transitioned from that to x86 assembly for a few years (where I learned what a flaming pile of garbage USB is on the inside), then found myself here after a brief flirtation with ARM assembly on the venerable ARM7TDMI.

 

Adafruit also has a variety of ARM-based Arduino boards, I have a Metro M4 Express on my desk right now with 2 load cells attached to it.  QSPI is broken in Arduino IDE so I either have to rectify the driver myself or see if I can bit-bang an SD card fast enough to gather the data I need.  If I was more comfortable with the IIO stack on linux and could be certain I'd get a sample every 100 microseconds I'd be using an SBC, probably a duo if the end user was ok with a small slow LCD over SPI.

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Tido

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8 hours ago, chwe said:

I'm working on a RFID implementation as well.. but that's just to have some sort of an inventory system but that's future..

I was working for a company where this was developed, now sold to http://www.tagpilot.de/index.php?id=156 . We tested it ourselv, when you were looking for a device you could locate the area quite easily. On each room a sensor and via Webinterface you could search it. And of course tweaked for longevity.

Fürs Labor: Die CITSens Bio Sensoren von c-cit.ch senden Glukose, Laktat & Glutamat Werte drahtlos zur Online Auswertung auf einen entfernten Rechner. Die hierfür von Albistechnologies entwickelte Funklösung basiert auf RFID Technologie und ZOMOFI.

 

3 hours ago, TonyMac32 said:

what a flaming pile of

Flamingo's :blink: ..  ah no just flaming :D

 

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NicoD

NicoD

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5 hours ago, TonyMac32 said:

Honestly it should boot a Duo image, wifi is the only issue, and making a proper device tree would fix that.  I don't have one, so I can't get into it.

I'm sure if you'd ask them you'd quickly have one. I've gotten one some time ago.
I'll try to remember to try Armbian on it the comming days.
It should be ready now to review. I was waiting for hardware encoding, and gms module to work. It seems it should be ready now.
It is a nice little board. You'd like it. Compact, but good performance.
A good board to set up for something small, and then forget about it forever.

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NicoD

NicoD

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17 minutes ago, TonyMac32 said:

I have an original Duo for breadboard shenanigans, I just couldn't budget another one since I don't really "need" it

Oh, is that the factor I should uphold to? Then I've bought a few too many. Luckily I've gotten some great ones for free. Most of all the M4 and RockPi4B. I don't know if I would have bought them(probably).
I say, if I have more hours fun with it than it costs me. Then I'll buy it. With cheap SBC's that's just a week playing :)
 

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NicoD

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46 minutes ago, martinayotte said:

If your inventory is taking dust, you could send me one, I will look what can I do for the Duo community ...

There's not one I would want to miss. Maybe the Tinker with burned out HDMI :)For the DUO2 I still need to make a review video about it.
Can @Igor not arrange boards for you guys? I'd epect his contacts reach a bit further than mine. You can also always ask yourself. It's easy to find the email address of the sales team/person. When they take one look at the armbian forum they'll know you guys will do good with it.

For me with my Youtube I get the strangest offers for things to review on the email address thats connected to that channel. Last week they asked to review a way too expensive robot. I can make it for $25, and they sell it for $100, all loose parts. 
So the only thing you get for the +$70 more is a manual on how to put it together. I ain't doing that. I've got enough robots like that.
afbeelding.thumb.png.27ea3fe0f3c18f8eb06e6af18b0c0898.png

Spoiler

 


I did also get the offer for some great usb3 cams to test. I hope thats going to go thru. They were going to send a new model before it launches. I don't even know if I may say it's called nano. But what isn't called nano these days :D
It fits this topic, cause I was going to compare them with the OV5640 from the DUO2 and the rasp cams. It should blow them away in picture quality. It's for industrial and security purpose. I can use them to film sbc's from close. They also make sbc's/SoM's. So could become a great contact. I was dissapointed nobody of Hardkernel contacted me for the N2. I made a lot of videos about Odroids. It earned them a lot of money, and none for me :lol:
It's clearly time for me to get in my bed.:blink:

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