TRS-80
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Posts posted by TRS-80
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Igor's comment was more directed at the others in the thread who are trying to solve this particular bugbear. In other words, mostly development talk.
There are lots of clues and instructions littered throughout these forums that will tell you how to get this working. However if you get too frustrated or can't figure it out, just wait a bit longer and eventually something will be released to make this "easier" for the average Joe.
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First off, my apologies for not recognizing your friend / partner, the OP, @jtremblant.
32 minutes ago, Salvador Liébana said:we are tired of RPI4 fanatism while the hardware clearly sucks
Well that's great to hear! Welcome to the club!
32 minutes ago, Salvador Liébana said:if that isn't enough for you or fpr anyone else
It was never about that. Please take a step back and try to see it from my point of view as a Moderator on a forum where someone (who I never heard of before, apologies again to @jtremblant) post some binary for download without sources. This is even why I stated:
1 hour ago, TRS-80 said:This is not meant to impugn your efforts
1 hour ago, TRS-80 said:standard disclaimer
(emphasis mine) This is not the first time I point such things out, and it will not be the last I am sure.
I think we just got off on wrong foot, maybe could have been avoided if you made the announcement post yourself @Salvador Liébana, and/or @jtremblant would have been introduced to us in @NicoD post some days ago (and apologies again (third time now, lol) if that was actually the case and I just missed that part of it).
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And now working again. I can see Technicavolous tag working now, too. Is my eye deceiving me, or are these the new ones you were working on? They look ever so slightly different (maybe)?
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18 minutes ago, Salvador Liébana said:
we don't care if you don't like it
I made no judgement whatsoever about your distribution. Only warned people (most especially, "noobs") to be aware of what they are downloading, and from whom. Which always applies, to everyone (including Armbian itself, upstream Debian, or anyone else who distribute executable, compiled binaries).
Now, I only even heard of you what seems to me like a few days ago, after NicoD introduced you here. Because I don't follow "desktop / gaming" circles (but I know he does). Therefore forgive me if I do not recognize your apparent partner (OP) who made the announcement. Because in my mind, the only place I heard "Twister OS" mentioned was with your name attached to it.
18 minutes ago, Salvador Liébana said:pro user's like you
I am, at best, a solid low to mid level wizard.
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This is not meant to impugn your efforts or anything, however I am personally not a big fan of random compiled images which are not verifiable in any way (I don't even see any hashes, much less reproducible source code). Also due to the latter, I am not sure how...
17 minutes ago, jtremblant said:feedback and contributions from other devs
...is supposed to take place?
Therefore the standard disclaimer applies: Individuals need to be very well aware of what they are installing on their systems, and ask yourself how much you trust the source of any executable code which might run.
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On 11/30/2020 at 4:37 PM, Technicavolous said:
After my last post I noticed the cute little tag 'Donator' was missing from my avatar so I went to re-subscribe and it shows conflicting info - if I roll over the blue badge top right it shows 'Subscription active' but in red in the middle of the box it states 'Subscription expired'
Mine seemed to be fine until today, when I noticed exact same symptoms. Followed exact same steps, with exact same results.
Just letting you know.
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2 hours ago, konki said:
I was of the same opinion but the absence of GNU Sed from the /usr/bin directory is very strange under debian.
sed is installed under armbian 20, but the binary is in the /bin directory.
┌─[ 2020-12-05 03:01 trs-80@host:~ ] └─▶ $ which sed /bin/sed ┌─[ 2020-12-05 13:01 trs-80@host:~ ] └─▶ $ dpkg --print-architecture amd64 ┌─[ 2020-12-05 13:01 trs-80@host:~ ] └─▶ $ lsb_release -d Description: Debian GNU/Linux bullseye/sid ┌─[ 2020-12-05 13:06 trs-80@host:~ ] └─▶ $ ls -al /bin | grep sed -rwxr-xr-x 1 root root 122224 Dec 22 2018 sed
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Awesome news! Kindly report back after some more time and let us know if it's still running stable (and eventually, even if you disable your reboot cron job).
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I liked the first title?
Anyway, you are on a roll today.
If I'm being honest, I thought the Pine Distro sponsorship was a bit gimmicky (and also infected with "social justice" nonsense) however giving away 1,000 boards to people (even if they are small and inexpensive) is still quite a nice gesture. Good marketing for them, anyway, and still a lot cheaper than hiring another dev...
All cynicism aside, if we end up with an actual blob free, small form factor, low power multi mode device, it will be a win-win. So maybe even brilliant on their part? I dunno.
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Awesome project, I wish them all the best!
Although I think many of us (including OP) realize the extreme challenges that are involved.
The point (in my view) is not to take that as a sign not to try (as average person probably thinks) and to give up but rather to try anyway, in spite of those odds.
At first I wondered if they were related in any way to Libre-SOC but apparently not. This is certainly a nascent area, but there are several different projects going in this direction and all need to be applauded (and even IMO helped, by whatever means we are able).
Libre-SOC are also getting a lot of those nlnet.nl and EU grants. So maybe not just a pipe dream after all.
Cheers to our friends across the pond!
We are kindred spirits, although mostly covered up with our own work here, already. 
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4 hours ago, JMCC said:
How can a casual discussion in the "General chit-chat" subforum and a check in motd be turned into officially "encouraging users to rely on ZFS"?
Maybe that's the perception because I am a Moderator? And/or considered part of "the team" even though I only work on Docs, forum, writing, etc.?
And since it was apparently not already clear, opinions in this thread are my own, and do not represent any official Armbian project position.
The MOTD part, well I can't speak for @Igor however it looks to me like he is just trying to give the people what they want, as there have been a lot of clamoring about it by users (look in Kobol Club as there have been some number of threads and posts about it lately).
Anyway, it's always easy to stand on the side and throw rocks.
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20 hours ago, tkaiser said:
btrfs lives inside the kernel
So does ZFS, essentially (the down low parts). The only reason it's built as modules or whatever is because of license incompatibility (CDDL) and because Linux kernel developers don't trust Oracle.
20 hours ago, tkaiser said:ZFS is most of the time used on more reliable hardware than btrfs and that's mostly due to [...]
Check which mainboards feature ECC memory and you'll realize that exactly those mainboards are the ones with proper onboard storage controllers. If you believe you need at least 8 GB of RAM this also rules out a lot of crappy hardware (like eg. vast majority of SBCs)
This is interesting. I am well aware of common urban myths you speak of, and I agree with you about them.[0]
However, are such myths the most important factor leading to using better hardware for ZFS? Or is ZFS documentation somehow better? Or...? I don't know.
But this is an interesting point, maybe you are on to something here.
20 hours ago, tkaiser said:you need a recent kernel version
20 hours ago, tkaiser said:Putting a btrfs on top of hardware raid, mdraid or lvm is as 'great' as doing the same with ZFS
20 hours ago, tkaiser said:Choice of hardware.
3 hours ago, tkaiser said:correct write barrier semantics [...] might be recipe for disaster with both ZFS and btrfs
3 hours ago, tkaiser said:confusing redundancy with backup
None of these things apply uniquely to ZFS, in fact they apply equally to both (as you even state yourself in many cases).
3 hours ago, tkaiser said:based on FUD (data losses with btrfs) or theoretical superiority '(the guys at Lawrence Livermore National Laboratory' for example)
I am trying to argue in good faith here. And I have read a lot of reports about data loss on btrfs. Therefore I would not characterize that as FUD. I have no reason to make that up. I (personally) have not seen the same sort of reports from ZFS users (even after quite a lot of reading on the topic).
My point (which you seem to have completely missed) was they have a lot of development resources behind them. I like how you conveniently also skipped over the fact that these are the original authors of ZFS from Sun. The fact they work now at LLNL was just connecting the dots for anyone who may be unaware of that fact (and making point they have lots of (government) funding behind them).
21 hours ago, tkaiser said:Which is the reason why the choice of filesystem (btrfs or ZFS) at my place depends on x86 (ZFS) or ARM (btrfs). And that's not because of the CPU architecture but solely due to with x86 being able to rely on professionals who take care about the updates they roll out vs. situation on ARM with a team of hobbyists
3 hours ago, tkaiser said:Btrfs [...] receives a lot more testing than the ZFS situation at Armbian allows for
Well, unlike you I don't feel the need to get my digs in on handful of people who I know personally who are trying to make things better by improving the situation in whatever way they can, working with very limited resources. But, manners aside, the facts are essentially: you are making same argument I made above about resources going into development. In case of ZFS on x86 that's quite a lot. And much less so on ARM currently (that I am aware of, I am not actually sure who is working on this specifically, nor how much of a priority it is for OpenZFS project, so maybe I start following that more closely again now, as the time seems right for it).
I agree it's very early days for ZFS on ARM. Which is why I suppose, that for all my interest and arguments in favor of ZFS (in general), I personally am still not running it on any ARM devices, either. Because I suppose that, deep down, my gut feeling has still been that we are not quite there yet. And I guess, now that I think about it, it's for same reasons as you point out (resources in development). In fact the situation on ARM is flip side of (development resources) coin that I made in favor of ZFS (in general).
[0] Lots of RAM is only needed for de-duplication, and you will still be better off with ZFS with no ECC than traditional filesystem, anyway, as at least now you will be more often aware of data corruption. ECC only brings this to even higher levels of reliability, but we are now talking about difference between (~) very^4 reliable and very^5 reliable level (or whatever).
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I guess I could be (sort of?) considered a "CLI fan boy."
But I became this way after having enough of being frustrated by limited "off the shelf" and/or GUI options. Which you seem to be also, although apparently not enough to quite push you over the hump of learning something new.
You correctly point out that it is an investment of time, perhaps one you are unable to make currently. Fair enough. I used to be on the hamster wheel, too. But that's the tradeoff. What do you value more, your freedom/independence, or your time? It's quite personal and subjective and there is no "right/wrong" answer. Right now it seems you value your time and you are certainly not in the minority in that calculation in the broader population (technical forums like ours perhaps more being the opposite).
As far as forgetting things, even as a "CLI fanboy" I take extensive notes[0] on many of the things I do, especially those which are new to me or that I also seem to never be able to remember. Which I think is just good practice in general, but especially in technical disciplines.
[0] I really like Orgmode in Emacs for taking notes, but if you are throwing terms around like "CLI fanboy" then Emacs might not be for you.
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You know, I take a lot of notes, but not always. So I am not 100% sure of following, however if I am recalling correctly, in one of NicoD videos where he goes through all his boards, the Odroid N2+ he says is very powerful (maybe even the most powerful?). but limited on I/O. And maybe that's what you were hinting to about USB, @lanefu?
And this is what I mean by "little gotchas." Also I want to make the point that there probably is no clear "best" as it depends a lot on your application, etc.
Also just now looking up the above video to get URL I came across another video (which I don't think I watched yet) called Comparison NanoPi M4 - RockPi4 - Odroid N2 - Khadas VIM3 which is perhaps even more directly applicable to this conversation.
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I am guessing you mean for "desktop" usage (many of us, including myself, primarily only use Armbian for "server/headless" usage).
@NicoD has some great video reviews on his YouTube channel, I want to say (if I am recalling correctly) his favorite right now for desktop usage is... NanoPi M4 V2(?) but check his channel to be sure (and check it anyway, lots of good info on there).
@lanefu was reporting really good results with a PineBook (Pro?) the other night in IRC, but that might be WIP/dev stuff, so not sure it's public/available yet or not. But in general, a lot of work has been done lately on "desktop" branch and should be getting released Soon(TM).
Many of these boards are compelling, however the best advice I can probably give you is to do your homework, as there are potentially little gotchas with any particular board. The more time you spend up front researching, the less hassle down the line.
A good starting point is usually always the Supported Devices List, but for "desktop" you are probably looking for one of the RK3399 based boards these days. Until you know the board families by heart, the home page of forums makes a handy cross reference (note which boards are listed for which family sub-forums).
Good luck, let us know how the search goes / what you pick, and don't be a stranger.
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There has been a lot of development on desktop lately. I am not sure how much has been pushed anywhere you can download it yet, though. Lanefu was reporting really good results the other night in IRC about his testing with Mate on PineBook. I have not heard anything about XFCE one way or the other until your report just now (so, thanks for that). However I think, more good things coming for desktop users, soon(TM).
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34 minutes ago, Joaho said:
> Can you post your serial console logs during failed boot?
I don't have one. Yet.
(emphasis mine)
That's the spirit!
IMO, everyone who play with SBC should own at least one. In fact, it's on my list to add that to the docs, right in "Getting Started" section...
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Always great to see you coming back around and giving your input, tkaiser. A lot of the reason that attracted me to Armbian in the first place was studying all those old threads where you shared all your research. And knowing that a lot of that went into Armbian.
I read through your reply quickly, but I will need to study it in more detail so I can return and give it the reply it deserves.
Until then, cheers, and happy Friday mate!
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I cannot help but wonder that there is some simple way to do this with existing low level tools already (i.e., dd, etc.)?
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What does htop say about the load? Is it constant or just a brief spike?
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5 hours ago, Learnincurve said:
I see that all of https://minio.k-space.ee/armbian/ is unavailable at the moment.
Work is ongoing on improving infrastructure (load balancing, re-directs, etc.). And therefore it's probably best to discuss and make forum links to the "original" link, instead of whatever the redirect ends up going to, as the latter is going to vary for people based on their region and some other things. Also they may go up and down for various reasons, etc.
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Today is your lucky day.
Jokes aside, I have been meaning to write this for some time. So finally I made time just now to make (my own, separate) thread about why I am not a fan of btrfs. This has nothing to do with you personally, and I hope you don't think I am singling you out because I am not.
Maybe that has something to do with your issue, or maybe it doesn't. In either case, I really do wish you the best of luck sorting it out. Also, for what I hope are now obvious reasons, I am afraid I don't know enough about btrfs to help in any further detail. Hopefully someone else will.
Cheers and happy Friday!
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I am not a big fan of btrfs in general. But rather than shit up other people's threads where they mention it, I decided to create my own here where I can lay out my arguments, and then I can link to it instead and people can read it if they want.
Some people are not going to like to hear this, so I will back it up by saying I have done fair amount of research into these advanced file systems over the last several years. It is a topic of great interest for me. At the same time, I view all knowledge as provisional, and maybe some things changed in the meantime, so discussion and factual corrections are welcomed.
I will also try and spare the reader my typical walls of text by breaking this up into some sections.
Why write this now?
Finally we are getting some hardware (thanks to Kobol, and others) which finally make this feasible (on ARM, which I feel is preferable for NAS when compared to x86), so I am seeing an influx of people into the Kobol Club, some of them mentioning that they are using btrfs. So I thought maybe now is a good time to write this stuff down.
License
Anyone who knows me can tell you I am quite a proponent of GPL (I am much more of a "Free Software" than an "Open Source" person for example). The reasons for that are in the links, but I mention this because btrfs could be considered the "Free Software" preferred choice, as it is licensed GPL, while ZFS has a lot of questions around the CDDL license. And yet I still prefer ZFS. I am just trying to highlight that I don't "hate" btrfs, in fact I root for them to succeed. But there are just too many technical and other reasons why I prefer ZFS. So I will try and lay out the rest of those now.
Data Loss
Probably my biggest argument against btrfs. I just read way too many reports of data loss on btrfs. Which is totally unacceptable IMO in one of these "advanced filesystems" which are supposed to prevent exactly that.
In fairness, I have heard btrfs proponents say that only applies to certain RAID modes (5?), and if you mirror it's not a problem. However any mention at all of data loss have just totally put me off from btrfs.
Development Resources
Another very strong argument. Lawrence Livermore National Laboratory have received massive federal funding to develop ZFS on Linux for many years now (of course the project nowadays is officially re-branded as "Open ZFS" but in truth almost all the development went into ZoL in the past, and still continues that way, regardless of the name change).
When Oracle bought Sun, many of original people jumped ship including the original ZFS authors Matt Ahrens and others. Guess where they went to work? At LLNL, to work on ZoL, which LLNL use for their supercomputers. And they have been improving it for many years now!
It's just going to be very hard for btrfs to compete with those sort of development resources, IMO. I realized this some years ago already, even when ZoL was considered much less stable than it is today (back then the conventional wisdom was to run ZFS only on Solaris-like OS, but this is no longer the case). But I saw the trajectory and the resources behind it and a few years later here we are and I was exactly right. And I see no change in any relevant circumstances (feds still funding LLNL, etc.) to change this trajectory in any way.
In Closing
I guess I did not have as many arguments as I thought. But I think those are enough. I may come back and edit this later if more things come to me. In the meantime, I welcome discussion.
Cheers!
Printenv for NEO PLUS2
in Allwinner sunxi
Posted
You have to replace the variable ${fdtfile} with the actual name of your... something.
I did not write those instructions (only edited them) but I think it is supposed to be... dtb file (maybe)?