Banana Pi Zero

[TonyMac32]

@tkaiser sorry for the delay, I'm at the day job, so haven't had a chance to look through it carefully.  Did @zador.blood.stained cover it?

 

[edit]  partially for my own curiosity I verified zador.blood.stained's findings, if component values are correct 1.1 and 1.3 volts.  My knowledge of the H2/3/5 is not that great, but I would guess, reading off of the CPU feedback pin for the regulator feedback, that you could measure (slightly) higher voltages at the regulator under load as it compensated for losses (in case anyone busts out the Fluke).

[tkaiser]

13 hours ago, TonyMac32 said:

Did @zador.blood.stained cover it?

 

Yes, I think so. At least we know that either schematics are wrong or vendor's hardware description. So everything as expected and still no improvement. But it's not important anyway (at least for people doing their homework and some research about Banana compatibility to Raspberries first).

 

Though still a bit curious why they did this change.

[Tido]

Both drawings say:  STB-Power = Set Top-box Power = copy of reference design of Allwinner = you don't know how it looks on the Banana-PCB, right or right ?

It is just another sad chapter in regard of Banana-Pi (Foxconn)

another 10min wasted

[tkaiser]

SinoVoip as usual: they're not even able to specify the dimensions of their products. Countless times they've been informed that their M2 Zero thingie is 65x30mm in size but they simply don't give a shit and still list wrong dimensions. And the same people wonder why there's zero community around them given this 'we don't care about anything' attitude.

 

Some REAL information about this board: https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/linux-sunxi/I8xJS_6q6kg

[lvmc]

@tkaiser, I have some BPI ZERO on hands.

[Larry Bank]

1 hour ago, lvmc said:

@tkaiser, I have some BPI ZERO on hands.

Did you get them from AliExpress or another vendor? When I try to buy them from the BPi link to AliExpress it shows $15 + free shipping, but when clicking on the product link, the shipping jumps to $6.53.

[tkaiser]

1 hour ago, lvmc said:

I have some BPI ZERO on hands

Well, what's the use case? I've to admit that I really like H2+ since this SoC allowed for some really inexpensive SBC with dedicated Fast or even Gigabit Ethernet and 4 real USB2 ports that do not have to share bandwidth (Orange Pi Zero, NanoPi Duo). But this board is just crippled and everything I would need is not exposed

 

BPi M2 Zero is proprietary camera + Wi-Fi/BT (so both BroadPwn and BlueBorne vulnerable). What else?

 

2 minutes ago, Larry Bank said:

Did you get them from AliExpress or another vendor?

 

Most probably from @Nora Lee (BPi product manager at Foxconn)

[lvmc]

@tkaiser cheap and inexpensive camera without any extension board. @Larry Bank from the supplier.

[tkaiser]

11 minutes ago, lvmc said:

cheap and inexpensive camera without any extension board.

 

So you combine it with SinoVoip's OV5640 or another module?

[lvmc]

@tkaiser it works with both SinoVoip's OV5640 or own custom module.

[lvmc]

@tkaiser what are the steps and how can I help you to officially support BPI ZERO on Armbian? If you help me with the overall steps, I can dedicate time on it.

[tkaiser]

8 minutes ago, lvmc said:

what are the steps and how can I help you to officially support BPI ZERO on Armbian?

Easy: Correct this mistake here: https://bananapi.gitbooks.io/bpi-m2-/content/en/bpi-m2-zero-hardware/bpi-m2-zero-hardware-spec.html (what to expect from a vendor who is not even able to specify the physical dimensions of his own products? It's now year 3 that we deal with this insane amount of stupidity/ignorance, these guys simply don't give a shit about 'information' they provide being correct or of any meaning).

 

As you can see in this thread as usual either schematics or their hardware description (provided fex file) are wrong, this simply sucks and prevents any development efforts. As you can also see above @Icenowy (member of linux-sunxi community) is the only person on this planet currently able to provide some real information (eg. voltage regulation different on her board compared to later board variants -- but you never know what they screw up with a new board revision).

 

As soon as SinoVoip starts to support their own hardware (and do not just spread BS) things might greatly improve though I've not the slightest idea why Armbian would want to support this board (just with BPi M2 Berry the M2 Zero only tries to attract clueless RPi users and I'm sure we really don't want these people here in the forum constantly asking why raspivid, omxplayer and adjusting display resolutions in /boot/config.txt doesn't work. Supporting boards that are designed as scam isn't that smart)

[lvmc]

@tkaiser Why are you still saying the same boring things about SinoVoip, over and over again? They are using miss information as a business strategy over competition and earning more money. Miss information generate revenue, while combating the miss information... sorry but your strategy is not working and won't work any soon.

 

I don't work for SinoVoip, I'm only trying to see the flaw from a business perspective, not from a system development only perspective.

[tkaiser]

9 minutes ago, lvmc said:

I don't work for SinoVoip

 

Me neither, so what are we talking here about? If providing wrong information is part of SinoVoip's business strategy while providing correct information is most basic requirement for 3rd parties supporting their hardware... well, do you get the mismatch?

 

Anyway: enough time wasted on hardware that is not even supported by its own vendor... use BPi's OS images, they're great and all that you'll get anytime soon. Support forum also over there: http://forum.banana-pi.org/c/Banana-pi-BPI-M2

 

Feel free to open a 'board bring up' thread here https://forum.armbian.com/forum/22-board-bring-up/ outlining why anyone should waste his time trying to do the impossible (correctly support a hardware where the vendor prevents you getting the necessary information). Good luck, will now mute this thread and everything with 'BPi' in its name.

[@lex]

@lvmc,

You probably know there is no CSI/VFE subsystem in kernel 4.xx , to have full control over DVP interface for OV5640 you should rely on legacy kernel or develop your own subsystem which is... well... overkill.

As a start, you could look into ./config/boards and change from a current H2 board config file and modify/add  information, since all H2 seems to be very similar with little changes. You just need to find  the correct gpio/port  pins for the ./config/fex (if legacy).

Nora Lee from Foxconn has always provided information when asked,  seems to be part of the business, need more information... just ask me. (you get the picture! ) 

 

Hope this helps.

 

 

 

[Lion Wang]

1 hour ago, tkaiser said:

Me neither, so what are we talking here about? If providing wrong information is part of SinoVoip's business strategy while providing correct information is most basic requirement for 3rd parties supporting their hardware... well, do you get the mismatch?

 

you don't work for SinoVoip,but your actions justify your working for someone else.

[lvmc]

@tkaiser and @Lion Wang it is time to put an end point on this "fight".

 

In my option, things are getting too aggressive and boring from both sides and it is not good for both the Armbian community and SinoVoip business.

 

@Lion Wang the community & customers are not satisfied with the information you are providing about your products. As CEO you have to listen and act as soon as possible to correct what is wrong.

 

@tkaiser you are essential for Armbian community, but it has been useless to read your posts about SinoVoip.

 

My suggestion is to give the last official chance for SinoVoip with Armbian community. I suggest to port Armbian to BPI ZERO and during the porting process both sides tell everything about what is not going right or hasn't been done right. Documentation is not good? SinoVoip will fix it. We need some detailed information about the hardware? SinoVoip will provide it... and so on.

 

Let's do it, guys?

 

We all want to build an ecosystem between hardware and software and a friendly community.

[Lion Wang]

12 minutes ago, lvmc said:

@tkaiser and @Lion Wang it is time to put an end point on this "fight".

 

In my option, things are getting too aggressive and boring from both sides and it is not good for both the Armbian community and SinoVoip business.

 

@Lion Wang the community & customers are not satisfied with the information you are providing about your products. As CEO you have to listen and act as soon as possible to correct what is wrong.

 

@tkaiser you are essential for Armbian community, but it has been useless to read your posts about SinoVoip.

 

My suggestion is to give the last official chance for SinoVoip with Armbian community. I suggest to port Armbian to BPI ZERO and during the porting process both sides tell everything about what is not going right or hasn't been done right. Documentation is not good? SinoVoip will fix it. We need some detailed information about the hardware? SinoVoip will provide it... and so on.

 

Let's do it, guys?

 

We all want to build an ecosystem between hardware and software and a friendly community.

I'm sorry, I just can't stand the continuous attacks from tkaiser in recent years. I will continue my work and try to make everything better.

I've always had a lot of respect and admiration for the work that the armbian community has done, and they're a group of great people.I also want to have a better cooperation.

[chwe]

Edit... too bad.. whole post is lost during upload.. 

[TonyMac32]

Well, what is that header, it is not documented.

[Lion Wang]

6 minutes ago, chwe said:

this is Network interface PIN define , you can contact RJ45 port.

[TonyMac32]

Well that is certainly interesting, can we get a pinout of that?

[chwe]

4 hours ago, tkaiser said:

Well, what's the use case? I've to admit that I really like H2+ since this SoC allowed for some really inexpensive SBC with dedicated Fast or even Gigabit Ethernet and 4 real USB2 ports that do not have to share bandwidth (Orange Pi Zero, NanoPi Duo). But this board is just crippled and everything I would need is not exposed

Maybe not for your use cases but for others. Not everyone has the same needs... I see use cases where size and wifi matters... Since OPi0 has heat issues,  and both other cheap small boards (opi0 and nanopi) have the annoying XR819 wifi.

 

1 hour ago, Lion Wang said:

you don't work for SinoVoip,but your actions justify your working for someone else.

don't start this again...  Thomas and you will fight on a personal level again, and @Tido will close the thread again...

 

55 minutes ago, lvmc said:

My suggestion is to give the last official chance for SinoVoip with Armbian community.

Doesn't make sense... If they have an interesting board, I'm sure people from the Armbian community will work on this board (maybe not Thomas but others.. ) And as @@lex said... Edit: Getting basic armbian support for this board should not be that much work. Starting with a similar board (1.1V/1.3 V regulation) add wifi and configuration of fex for the pinheader and you'll have a basic armbian image for this board. 

 

42 minutes ago, Lion Wang said:

I also want to have a better cooperation.

I appreciate this, so let's start with the 4pin connector from my last post. 

 

FYI: Short version of the post with the picture which is lost somewhere in the www nirvana during upload.  I was too annoyed to write everything again...  

[chwe]

19 minutes ago, Lion Wang said:

this is Network interface PIN define , you can contact RJ45 port.

Nice to get a fast response. But when you've ethernet there, this should be on your schematics! and described somewhere.  Most people would expect that the connector might be for powering (or maybe the USB otg). And to improve things, make sure that this information is not only visible here in the armbian forum.  It should also be in your documentation for this board. 

[Lion Wang]

 

[chwe]

So, there are schematics where CON4 is drawn on it. Is there a reason why you don't release them or will we see an updated version of your schematics pdf soon?

 

Edit: my fault, I didn't recognize it when I had a first look through the schematics. 

[Lion Wang]

6 minutes ago, chwe said:

So, there are schematics where CON4 is drawn on it. Is there a reason why you don't release them or will we see an updated version of your schematics pdf soon?

 

we have public schematic :

 

http://forum.banana-pi.org/t/bpi-m2-zero-schematic-diagram-public/4111

[chwe]

But to help you to improve,  this is the 'sort' of information I would expect on your gitbook page.   I know this needs time and someone who's responsible to update it but it makes it much easier for your customers when they find all those information on one place.  So your gitbook page for the Zero should have:

• Specs (e.g. SoC,  amount of ram, dimensions etc.)
• short description about how to connect camera to the board,  what this 4 pin header is for,  how to use serial debug, maybe also one for the large pinheader
• Link to download of your OS for this board
• Link to schematics

 

[TonyMac32]

2 minutes ago, Lion Wang said:

 

we have public schematic :

 

http://forum.banana-pi.org/t/bpi-m2-zero-schematic-diagram-public/4111

 

Indeed you do, however it does not have "CON4" anywhere on the board silkscreen that I see, and being a 2x2 header alignment is still a bit of a question, especially when Pin1 is marked to be on the right-hand side, which is non-conventional compared to the rest of the board.  Not saying anything is inherently wrong, the schematic is there, is labelled, but I for one, a senior electrical engineer, did not notice it, instead seeing an unlabelled 2x2 on the physical device.  This should be on your page explicitly labelled, and probably a silkscreen adjustment made.

 

[wishlist]

 

Now, were it a 2x3 with 2 of those pins being a V_in....  Now that would certainly be useful and meet the approval of many.  Not to mention making orientation a non-issue as it would then be non-ambiguous.  ;-)

 

[feedback]

 

Do the various test points exist in hardware, such as the "TV-out" (TP8?)?  If not they need removed, simply because you are referring to the schematic as an ultimate resource (as it should be)  That said, TV-out is a Pi Zero feature...

 

If you are open to a feedback, I would say a good variant would be one of these without wifi, but instead with the additional USB's available via header, a position for a barrel jack or direct-solder power input, and an eMMC.

 

 

[tkaiser]

5 hours ago, lvmc said:

you are essential for Armbian community, but it has been useless to read your posts about SinoVoip

 

Man, that's soooooooooo annoying. Do you know how much time it needs to support this M2 Zero IF SinoVoip would care about providing correct information? Less than an hour. It's just importing a CORRECT hardware description and then doing some MINOR adjustments. That's how it works

1. Get correct hardware description from board vendor
2. adopt/improve settings
3. test, test, test
4. provide general support if Armbian supports the board

Step 1 is the problem. We NEVER got correct information, usually we get bogus information for whatever reasons (you call it business strategy while I would call it stupidity/ignorance) and it's the same with Zero AGAIN. If I have to ask someone who personally called me an asshole already, refuses to update publicly available information and also ensures that's there's only BS instead of technical documentation available then:

• why should a developer deal with this stuff?
• why should a community like Armbian think about step 4 above?

If the vendor's business model is targeting only clueless consumers who do not even care about basic product descriptions being correct (even the PHYSICAL DIMENSIONS, still not fixed in their 'technical documentation') while at the same time being tricked into believing they would buy something compatible to Raspberry Pi Zero (SOFTWARE COMPATIBILITY) then why should a community like Armbian want to support these consumers and the vendor?

 

Even if this M2 Zero isn't useful for any of my own use cases (anyone ever thought about WHY we Armbians spend our SPARE TIME on which devices?) I would've long added https://github.com/armbian/build/blob/master/config/boards/bananapim2zero.csc and https://github.com/armbian/build/blob/master/config/fex/bananapim2zero.fex to the build system since it's easy and fun. But impossible with SinoVoip since they refuse to provide step 1 above and even actively hinder community to support their products.

 

Nothing will change until this company starts to realize that they need to replace their copy&paste monkey responsible for this gitbook mess with a technical writer and that they have to provide CORRECT hardware descriptions early and in an easily accessible way (push the stuff to github at one location, correct mistakes as soon as you're aware of it). And even then it's highly questionable why Armbian as community should start to officially support devices that are designed to trick consumers into believing full Raspberry Pi compatibility where there is none.

 

BTW: I really don't know why I have to repeat this now again (especially since you call this boring). It's so OBVIOUS what's wrong with the company's behaviour and it's also obvious that they don't want to change this. It's still just a waste of time (the board I lost most of my time with in the past was the Zero's bigger sibling M2+, everything related to SinoVoip providing INCORRECT hardware information/description -- whether on purpose or caused by stupidity/ignorance doesn't really matter any more).