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SOPINE Not working

AZClusterboard

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AZClusterboard

AZClusterboard

Posted
Posted (edited)

I have a Clusterboard and the latest images (Stretch and Bionic) do not work with my SOPINE modules.  Legacy 3.10 (Xenial) works.  I've been told this is a problem that has been resolved before but somehow the fix has been left out of the latest images.  What is the process for getting it back in?

 

armbianator didn't generate a URL so I'm manually pasting it here:

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  Reveal hidden contents

 

Edited by lanefu
putting log data in spoiler
lanefu

lanefu

Posted
Posted
  On 3/20/2019 at 2:55 AM, AZClusterboard said:
 

I have a Clusterboard and the latest images (Stretch and Bionic) do not work with my SOPINE modules.  Legacy 3.10 (Xenial) works.  I've been told this is a problem that has been resolved before but somehow the fix has been left out of the latest images.  What is the process for getting it back in?

Expand  


Can you share logs and describe what troubleshooting you've done.

AZClusterboard

AZClusterboard

Posted
  • Author
Posted
  On 3/20/2019 at 3:13 AM, lanefu said:


Can you share logs and describe what troubleshooting you've done.

Expand  

armbianmonitor didn't generate a URL so I did a manual paste to the post.  I do not have the hardware to UART in or plug it in to a LTS baseboard.  I only have the clusterboard.  I tried all 3 images and 3.10 is the only one that pulled DHCP.

lanefu

lanefu

Posted
Posted
  On 3/20/2019 at 3:17 AM, AZClusterboard said:

armbianmonitor didn't generate a URL so I did a manual paste to the post.  I do not have the hardware to UART in or plug it in to a LTS baseboard.  I onlu have the clusterboard and I tried the images.  3.10 is the only one that pulled DHCP.

Expand  


Uhh yeah i see you were ... quite generous with your logs.  anyway I edited your post to encapsulate your logs in a "spoiler" to keep the forum clean.

lanefu

lanefu

Posted
Posted
  On 3/20/2019 at 2:55 AM, AZClusterboard said:
 

I have a Clusterboard and the latest images (Stretch and Bionic) do not work with my SOPINE modules.  Legacy 3.10 (Xenial) works.  I've been told this is a problem that has been resolved before but somehow the fix has been left out of the latest images.  What is the process for getting it back in?

 

 

 
Expand  



What version _were_ you running?

archives here https://dl.armbian.com/pine64so/archive/ if you want to rollback

lanefu

lanefu

Posted
Posted
  On 3/20/2019 at 3:32 AM, AZClusterboard said:

That log is from 3.10.  It's the only one I can SSH into to get it.

Expand  


So the most helpful info would be to get logs for the TTL serial console of one of the fail boards.. looks like the cluster board has some IO pins for each.. I'd assume there's the TTL console port there.... Do you have a TTL serial cable you could use... or you can even use another SBC to connect if you really needed to.

AZClusterboard

AZClusterboard

Posted
  • Author
Posted
  On 3/20/2019 at 3:52 AM, lanefu said:


So the most helpful info would be to get logs for the TTL serial console of one of the fail boards.. looks like the cluster board has some IO pins for each.. I'd assume there's the TTL console port there.... Do you have a TTL serial cable you could use... or you can even use another SBC to connect if you really needed to.

Expand  

No.  I ordered something to do that but it still hasn't come.  It's supposed to come in this week but I've never used one.  Even when it gets here it will take time for me to learn how to use it.  Not to mention I installed heatsinks on the chips that might prevent me from getting at the pins.  It's the same board, just a different OS image.

 

Here is a link to a conversation we were having about it in the other forum:

https://forum.pine64.org/showthread.php?tid=7263

Igor

Igor

Posted
Posted

Clusterboard is different hardware - not among supported list. The problem is probably related to timing due to different PCB lines length.

AZClusterboard

AZClusterboard

Posted
  • Author
Posted
  On 3/20/2019 at 6:36 AM, Igor said:

Clusterboard is different hardware - not among supported list. The problem is probably related to timing due to different PCB lines length.

Expand  

It's a SOPINE compute module.  The compute module is supported.  Why wouldn't the board be supported?  If it's not supported, why does 3.10 work and what's the problem with getting that solution in to the latest distribution?

Igor

Igor

Posted
Posted
  On 3/20/2019 at 4:33 PM, AZClusterboard said:

Why wouldn't the board be supported? 

Expand  


Because our resources are limited? Because dealing with you and boards is very expensive and nobody is covering not a fraction of those costs?

AZClusterboard

AZClusterboard

Posted
  • Author
Posted
  On 3/20/2019 at 6:22 PM, Igor said:


Because our resources are limited? Because dealing with you and boards is very expensive and nobody is covering not a fraction of those costs?

Expand  

I don't understand.  How is dealing with me expensive?  Isn't it just a matter of making some config changes?  Isn't this an open source project?  I get the feeling you have some misconceptions about what's going on.

Igor

Igor

Posted
Posted
  On 3/20/2019 at 9:07 PM, AZClusterboard said:

Isn't this an open source project?

Expand  

 

True.  Fork, invest your time and fix. If you are unable to solve the problem, hire someone. Stop asking us to work for you - we don't.
 

  On 3/20/2019 at 9:07 PM, AZClusterboard said:

I get the feeling you have some misconceptions about what's going on.

Expand  

 

Armbian is licenced under GPL:

 

BECAUSE THE PROGRAM IS LICENSED FREE OF CHARGE, THERE IS NO WARRANTY FOR THE PROGRAM, TO THE EXTENT PERMITTED BY APPLICABLE LAW. EXCEPT WHEN OTHERWISE STATED IN WRITING THE COPYRIGHT HOLDERS AND/OR OTHER PARTIES PROVIDE THE PROGRAM "AS IS" WITHOUT WARRANTY OF ANY KIND, EITHER EXPRESSED OR IMPLIED, INCLUDING, BUT NOT LIMITED TO, THE IMPLIED WARRANTIES OF MERCHANTABILITY AND FITNESS FOR A PARTICULAR PURPOSE. THE ENTIRE RISK AS TO THE QUALITY AND PERFORMANCE OF THE PROGRAM IS WITH YOU. SHOULD THE PROGRAM PROVE DEFECTIVE, YOU ASSUME THE COST OF ALL NECESSARY SERVICING, REPAIR OR CORRECTION.


For better overview on OSS, perhaps read Producing Open Source Software or/and Social Architecture: Building On-line Communities. Our "as is" support is forum, documentation and holding this together already requires enormous efforts. From many people.

 

  On 3/20/2019 at 9:07 PM, AZClusterboard said:

How is dealing with me expensive? 

Expand  


It's not just you having problems and it is not just you having a desire asking things. Answering questions requires time and attention. Dealing with issue require more time and attention. If this could be possible to do in a reasonable time / day, no problem, but since "you" are asking for questions and solutions all the time and they would require wasting hours and hours for you is simply not possible. Remember, "you" pay nothing and answering costs time(money). We can't afford to support you in such numbers. Even you are willing to pay for the time.

AZClusterboard

AZClusterboard

Posted
  • Author
Posted
  On 3/21/2019 at 7:31 AM, Igor said:

 

True.  Fork, invest your time and fix. If you are unable to solve the problem, hire someone. Stop asking us to work for you - we don't.
 

It's not just you having problems and it is not just you having a desire asking things. Answering questions requires time and attention. Dealing with issue require more time and attention. If this could be possible to do in a reasonable time / day, no problem, but since "you" are asking for questions and solutions all the time and they would require wasting hours and hours for you is simply not possible. Remember, "you" pay nothing and answering costs time(money). We can't afford to support you in such numbers. Even you are willing to pay for the time.

Expand  

 

I am investing my time.  I'm just not familiar with everything that is going in with the armbian software

 

It takes time for me to try and collaborate with you to try to get to the root of the problem.  I don't think my time is any less valuable than yours.

 

I'm not asking for that much.  Just some help in trying to find the update that makes a piece of supported hardware not work.  Not just for me but for everyone trying to use armbian.

 

 

AZClusterboard

AZClusterboard

Posted
  • Author
Posted
  On 3/20/2019 at 3:52 AM, lanefu said:


So the most helpful info would be to get logs for the TTL serial console of one of the fail boards.. looks like the cluster board has some IO pins for each.. I'd assume there's the TTL console port there.... Do you have a TTL serial cable you could use... or you can even use another SBC to connect if you really needed to.

Expand  

 

I managed to get the terminal working this morning.  This is the output (starting from the last dmesg) of "cat /var/log/armbian-hardware-monitor.log

armbian-hardware-monitor.txt

Igor

Igor

Posted
Posted
  On 3/21/2019 at 4:28 PM, AZClusterboard said:

I'm just not familiar with everything that is going in with the armbian software

Expand  


It's about knowing hardware, which we didn't build, don't have and don't support. It only saves some time if you use Armbian tools. 

 

  On 3/21/2019 at 4:28 PM, AZClusterboard said:

I don't think my time is any less valuable than yours.

Expand  


Is it? You will use 500, 1000 or more units of time and perhaps only learn something. We might be able to fix this in 1

 

  On 3/21/2019 at 4:28 PM, AZClusterboard said:

I'm not asking for that much.

Expand  


http://jeffacubed.com/the-boilermaker-story-or-knowing-where-to-tap/

 

  On 3/21/2019 at 4:28 PM, AZClusterboard said:

but for everyone trying to use armbian.

Expand  


Once again. Our resources are limited and "your" contribution to the budget doesn't allow to expand this, to hire help. We can't deal with every pcs of electronics that industry plunges out. Hardware (where "you" are willing to waste your money on) design is much cheaper than software support. Crazy world, but that's it ;)


Keep researching. The thrill of solved problem is the nicest reward. Better than lousy sex :) 

AZClusterboard

AZClusterboard

Posted
  • Author
Posted
  On 3/22/2019 at 6:11 AM, Igor said:


It's about knowing hardware, which we didn't build, don't have and don't support. It only saves some time if you use Armbian tools. 

 


Is it? You will use 500, 1000 or more units of time and perhaps only learn something. We might be able to fix this in 1

 


http://jeffacubed.com/the-boilermaker-story-or-knowing-where-to-tap/

 


Once again. Our resources are limited and "your" contribution to the budget doesn't allow to expand this, to hire help. We can't deal with every pcs of electronics that industry plunges out. Hardware (where "you" are willing to waste your money on) design is much cheaper than software support. Crazy world, but that's it ;)


Keep researching. The thrill of solved problem is the nicest reward. Better than lousy sex :) 

Expand  

So then why do you say you support SOPINE if you don't want to support SPOINE?

 

Because you can do it in less time means it makes more sense that I should be able to get some help rather than me wasting my time trying to do it on my own blind.  There is no point in wasting that much time.  That's the point of community support.  I might not know a lot about this hardware or this software but clearly it's the best you have at the moment.  Judging by your reaction to me, I can see why more people aren't even trying to come forward.

 

As for your analogy, it does not apply.  Money should not be a factor unless you're trying to run some kind of extortion scheme.

 

I have never found satisfaction in finding a solution to a problem.  I find satisfaction in doing work instead of trying to find out why the machine doesn't work.  The troubleshooting I do is all in service of that goal as opposed to being the goal itself.

Igor

Igor

Posted
Posted

If device is supported, you report a problem and wait. If it is not supported, your pleads are moved to community section that community (support) picked them up or not. If your board is supported (that we have hardware, choose to help you and already invested some of our time and money into them), issues is recognized and prioritized. If there is an urgent issues we try the best but it still can easily takes days to weeks, while for non-urgent matters it takes months to years. People that move things forward and know something vs. random users is probably somewhere between 5.000  - 10.000 vs. 1. Now do the math.

For that past few years I was working 8-16h/day on the project. Now, I have some personal issues and I can't afford to work more than few hours per day which means only basic maintaining & administration. This means waiting time for small issues - if you want that they go on my 2do list - temporally jumped from 1-2 to 5-8 years. I know this sounds ridiculous but when you consider there are a lot of people like you (and issues) out there and since we have very complicated situation on the other side this is quite normal. Just a few people, who have the interest to play with those board in their free time, can't cover a job of 100 people.  Or more.
 

How is money here incorporated? All major open-source project needs money to operate and many of them have full-time people. We would definitely need them, but since you are not willing to pay anything more than for a beer, we will run on amateur force. This means - you found a problem that needs to be fixed? Well, you need to wait two years. With one full timer, we could perhaps get down to a year an half, with 3 down to a year ... 

NicoD

NicoD

Posted
Posted
  On 3/20/2019 at 2:55 AM, AZClusterboard said:

I have a Clusterboard and the latest images (Stretch and Bionic) do not work with my SOPINE modules.  Legacy 3.10 (Xenial) works.  I've been told this is a problem that has been resolved before but somehow the fix has been left out of the latest images.  What is the process for getting it back in?

Expand  

This is the same problem as this thread.

@AZClusterboard Did you try the fix of siffland yourself?
 

  On 3/22/2019 at 9:47 PM, AZClusterboard said:

I have never found satisfaction in finding a solution to a problem.  I find satisfaction in doing work instead of trying to find out why the machine doesn't work. 

Expand  

https://www.pine64.org/?product=clusterboard-with-7-sopine-compute-module-slots
 

  Quote

NOTE: Clusterboard is a development board that requires experience with operating headless Linux systems

Expand  

Maybe it's not the right tool for the job for you? Pine makes a lot of hardware, but doesn't support it. So people buying it are supposed to know how to make these things work. Or at least find pleasure in searching for fixes.
If you want a device that works out of the box, with software support. Then you've bought the wrong device from the wrong company.


Maybe try this.

  Quote

@siffland
I use my cluserboard as a docker swarm, works pretty nice.  See my post above about the solution i found with the custom u-boot version.  I just burn armbian to a micro sdcard and then dd the custom u-boot to the card and everything works fine.  

 

The second link from the jan willies github explains how to do this and doing a diff from his github shows the changes he has to make to u-boot.  I dont know if this can be submitted upstream to u-boot, i wish i knew a lot more about u-boot.

 

So this is a u-boot problem.

Expand  

 

  Quote

Following this post on the pine pages with the same issue:

https://forum.pine64.org/archive/index.php?thread-5581-3.html

 

and using this u-boot (referenced from the above link) fixed the issue for me.

https://github.com/janwillies/u-boot/releases/tag/v2019.01-cb-1

 

So which method is the best fix for this.  I would think your driver method is, but this u-boot modification also worked.

 

Thanks,

Sean

Expand  


It is a work around. But once you've got them running, you can go further.
It does seem nice hardware, but since not many people are using it, you're not going to have a lot of help. But best is to join those who are working with it.
@lanefu
Can this u-boot be easily merged into the sopine build? (I don't know, just trying to help...)

 

  On 3/23/2019 at 4:42 PM, Igor said:

Now, I have some personal issues

Expand  

Take care of yourself. Most could not handle the stress of such a huge project. Try not to worry too much about Armbian, there's others who do. Best of luck.
 

1
lanefu

lanefu

Posted
Posted
  On 3/23/2019 at 8:20 PM, NicoD said:

lanefu
Can this u-boot be easily merged into the sopine build? (I don't know, just trying to help...)

Expand  

Looks like just a few patches to u-boot 2019.01.  I can at least try to build an image from it

1
AZClusterboard

AZClusterboard

Posted
  • Author
Posted
  On 3/23/2019 at 4:42 PM, Igor said:

If device is supported, you report a problem and wait. If it is not supported, your pleads are moved to community section that community (support) picked them up or not. If your board is supported (that we have hardware, choose to help you and already invested some of our time and money into them), issues is recognized and prioritized. If there is an urgent issues we try the best but it still can easily takes days to weeks, while for non-urgent matters it takes months to years. People that move things forward and know something vs. random users is probably somewhere between 5.000  - 10.000 vs. 1. Now do the math.

For that past few years I was working 8-16h/day on the project. Now, I have some personal issues and I can't afford to work more than few hours per day which means only basic maintaining & administration. This means waiting time for small issues - if you want that they go on my 2do list - temporally jumped from 1-2 to 5-8 years. I know this sounds ridiculous but when you consider there are a lot of people like you (and issues) out there and since we have very complicated situation on the other side this is quite normal. Just a few people, who have the interest to play with those board in their free time, can't cover a job of 100 people.  Or more.
 

How is money here incorporated? All major open-source project needs money to operate and many of them have full-time people. We would definitely need them, but since you are not willing to pay anything more than for a beer, we will run on amateur force. This means - you found a problem that needs to be fixed? Well, you need to wait two years. With one full timer, we could perhaps get down to a year an half, with 3 down to a year ... 

Expand  

So then why do you say you support SOPINE if you don't want to support SPOINE?  This is not just some random user problem.  This is a problem with the distribution image image that probably could have been fixed by now.  The only reason you need to hire people is because this is how you treat them when they do their best to try and help for free.

lanefu

lanefu

Posted
Posted
  On 3/24/2019 at 3:46 PM, AZClusterboard said:

So then why do you say you support SOPINE if you don't want to support SPOINE?  This is not just some random user problem.  This is a problem with the distribution image image that probably could have been fixed by now.  The only reason you need to hire people is because this is how you treat them when they do their best to try and help for free.

Expand  

Hey Man, can we just kind of back away from this back and forth?     Lets focus on the fix that we'd like you to try

AZClusterboard

AZClusterboard

Posted
  • Author
Posted
  On 3/23/2019 at 8:20 PM, NicoD said:

This is the same problem as this thread.

@AZClusterboard Did you try the fix of siffland yourself?
 

https://www.pine64.org/?product=clusterboard-with-7-sopine-compute-module-slots
 

Maybe it's not the right tool for the job for you? Pine makes a lot of hardware, but doesn't support it. So people buying it are supposed to know how to make these things work. Or at least find pleasure in searching for fixes.
If you want a device that works out of the box, with software support. Then you've bought the wrong device from the wrong company.


Maybe try this.

 


It is a work around. But once you've got them running, you can go further.
It does seem nice hardware, but since not many people are using it, you're not going to have a lot of help. But best is to join those who are working with it.
@lanefu
Can this u-boot be easily merged into the sopine build? (I don't know, just trying to help...)

 

Take care of yourself. Most could not handle the stress of such a huge project. Try not to worry too much about Armbian, there's others who do. Best of luck.
 

Expand  

I got the serial console working the other day.  It took me some time to figure out how to do it, but I was able to convert the dtb to dts for editing, insert the rx change and convert it back.  That did fix the problem.

 

I have plenty of experience running headless linux.  What I don't have is any kind of experience with messing with linux drivers.  On the PC side, I never use linux because of all the driver problems.  I mostly use it on embedded hardware that has drivers working.  I am aware that Pine64 does have problems with drivers.  I supported their kickstarter and got a bord that I couldn't use because it didn't work with my monitor.  I never thought that would translate in to problems with something so basic as a network card.  If I would have known it was going to be like this, I never would have started this project.  That being said, this is where I find myself and I'm doing my best to try and help.

AZClusterboard

AZClusterboard

Posted
  • Author
Posted
  On 3/24/2019 at 1:43 AM, lanefu said:

@AZClusterboard

Please try this image that I built and let me know how your testing goes.  I don't have any pin64 stuff.

Patch is in this PR https://github.com/armbian/build/pull/1324
 

@martinayotte

Would you mind taking a look at my PR and make sure I put the patch in the proper location, named correctly, and other adult things I'm supposed to do?

Expand  

 

I booted the image.  It did pull down DHCP.  I was able to SSH in to it and run apt-get update/upgrade.  What else should I test?  Off the top of my head, the only thing I can think of is to try it on more than just 1 module to make sure it's generating MAC addresses without conflicts.  I'm going to try and find an empty SD card to work with.

 

 

  On 3/24/2019 at 3:53 PM, lanefu said:

Hey Man, can we just kind of back away from this back and forth?     Lets focus on the fix that we'd like you to try

Expand  

 

Will do.  I was going chronologically.  Please give the same advice to Igor.

1
lanefu

lanefu

Posted
Posted
  On 3/24/2019 at 5:18 PM, AZClusterboard said:

What else should I test?  Off the top of my head, the only thing I can think of is to try it on more than just 1 module to make sure it's generating MAC addresses without conflicts.  

Expand  

 

Ya thats a great idea.  Probably the most impactful edge case to happen.

 

Does Cpu frequency and all of that kind of stuff look good with `armbianmonitor -m` ?

AZClusterboard

AZClusterboard

Posted
  • Author
Posted
  On 3/24/2019 at 5:28 PM, lanefu said:

 

Ya thats a great idea.  Probably the most impactful edge case to happen.

 

Does Cpu frequency and all of that kind of stuff look good with `armbianmonitor -m` ?

Expand  

 

Good news is that it is generating unique MAC addresses.  armbianmonitor is showing my frequency at 648 but that might just be scaling based on load.   Should I try running SETI@Home or is there something that is part of the existing OS image I can do to make it crunch some numbers?

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