Audio hardware not recognized with Odroid N2 kernel 5.4


SnijtraM
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Thankyou for the time you take to clarify explanations.  

 

You know, @NicoD, I think a great article/video for you would be to explain the difference between the versions of debian/ubuntu (buster, bionic, jessie, etc.), and the different versions of the kernel. What is legacy vs mainline? What does it mean when one has support and the other doesn't? (can't you just copy it over).  Why are these features, like hardware acceleration, so difficult to make work?  I would write it if I understood it, but I don't. And as you can see in this thread, smart guys like all of you don't even understand what we don't understand.  I can tell you that my methodology is to wait until someone posts a useful link and try it, because I have no idea what changing a kernel in armbian config even does, and what it would effect.  I wouldn't say it's like "explain it for the dumb people."  Because I personally wrote a book on remote web publishing in Perl for John Wiley in 1996, and gave away working software, before anyone even envisioned wordpress.  I'm sure a lot of other people who look stupid here are actually not at all.  You don't know what you don't know, and I have yet to find a good explanation of how these operating systems work now. 

 

I just asked Stephen from Opi if one of his images has hardware acceleration, and he said it did. Yet my experience with his images are that they don't even work.  So if someone did this, it would be great to explain why things work here and they don't work there, and why, if it works on an old kernel, why anyone would want to even use "mainline" where all kinds of nasty things are broken (like not being able to log into my gmail).  

 

Just an idea.  I love @NicoD's approach, even if it is usually not from the perspective of what I use pis for at all.  Two wives and six kids later, I don't have a lot of time for retro-gaming. :) 

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21 hours ago, N2_user said:

But i'm still surprise


Why is that a surprise. Even features are developed, drivers existing and if everything is open source, they have to be implemented. And maintained. And for that you need resources. You need someone that understands all this and that is the most scarce and expensive resource. 

 

People takes that just too easy and expect that this is Lego land.

 

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7 hours ago, N2_user said:

I'm so agree with you !

 

I think most of us agree with him, but things has changed since 1996.

 

Been there.

 

16 hours ago, DeterminedOpier said:

I just asked Stephen from Opi if one of his images has hardware acceleration

 

Their (privately developed) kernel supports such options and we used that for older Allwinner A20/H3 based hardware. And we dropped legacy support there - too much hassle. If you only need that, rather use Librelec. In Linux this is expensive to provide.

 

16 hours ago, DeterminedOpier said:

why anyone would want to even use "mainline" where all kinds of nasty things are broken


Its always a trade. Some people need modern kernel and features that are there and vice verse. Which is why we don't force anyone and provide both kernels - where this makes sense. Once we don't need the old and "working" (actually this is private development) kernel, we dump it to the trash. We would maintain it forever if someone would pay for that. For free / on private costs, nobody will deal with such nonsense very long. Suddenly there is exactly nobody to maintain it and alone you can't do anything. Linux is a community project per se.

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Yea I actually don't understand why you deal with any of this nonsense Igor. The internet became a mean, entitled place where nobody has any accountability except the people like you who offer themselves for the betterment of mankind.  I tried to help some when I can, because the nice and grateful ones do make it somewhat worthwhile and fun. But OMG the bullshit you have to put up with at the top of this food chain I don't know how you continue. 

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On 9/13/2020 at 4:28 PM, DeterminedOpier said:

I think a great article/video for you would be to explain the difference between the versions of debian/ubuntu (buster, bionic, jessie, etc.), and the different versions of the kernel. What is legacy vs mainline? What does it mean when one has support and the other doesn't? (can't you just copy it over).  Why are these features, like hardware acceleration, so difficult to make work?

Thank you. That's a good idea.
I'll give it a try now, if someone can add to it, then thank you. I can then later make a video about it and documentation for the Armbian forum.

Debian is often better and more loved for server employment. While Ubuntu is more optimised for desktop applications.
I mostly use Ubuntu for that reason.

 

Bionic is Ubuntu 18.04 while Focal is Ubuntu 20.04.
Debian Buster is Debian 10. Jessy was 8 and Stretch 9.


Debian and Ubuntu perform differently for different applications. Even when using the same kernel. This because the developers for Ubuntu and Debian focus on different aspects.

I always benchmark what OS is best for my applications. And most of the times that's Ubuntu.

The choice of what image I use is often made by the versions of the software that's found in their repo's. Newer versions often mean a lot more issues with those programs.
I'm too lazy to manually build all the software I need. I just use a bash script that installs everything I need from the repo's. So I'll often stay with an older more developed version, than to choose the bleeding edge. The same goes for kernels.

 

The importance of Armbian is the Armbian build script. https://docs.armbian.com/Developer-Guide_Build-Preparation/
With this you can build either a Ubuntu or a Debian image.
And the kernels are maintained by the good folks at Armbian. I'm not really one of them, I'm just an observer also trying to learn a bit more.

Legacy kernels are kernels that come from board makers/SoC makers. At some point they choose a kernel and keep developing that kernel. Armbian then uses that kernel and also adds their own patches.
These kernels are often, but not always more advanced in support for HDMI/sound/networks/BT/stabillity...

 

That often depends on the board maker their effort to support their own boards. Asus for example did an awful job for the Tinker Board.
While Hardkernel (Odroid's) do a good job, and often get Amlogic to do a bit more work for them than for other board makers.

What is often missing is the GPU and VPU support. This is a big problem, and made bigger by ARM not giving us good drivers for Linux. (guess that will not improve now with NVIDIA)

For the RK3399 that's then a bit different since Armbian uses the same legacy kernel for all RK3399 boards. This is also a very well maintained kernel.
But then misses the support of things that are developed for the mainline kernel. Of which Panfrost is the best example(GPU driver).
The legacy kernel is still my favorite for the RK3399 thanks to the work of @JMCC and his media script. That supports VPU acceleration and some GPU capabilities. https://forum.armbian.com/topic/9272-development-rk3399-media-script/

This is also thanks to the work of Rockchip themselfs.
While Amlogic does little to nothing to support the Linux communtiy with drivers. They do make the SoCs with the most performance and best performance/watt. (for now at least, waiting on news of the RK3588)
Allwinner also has good Linux support, but more thanks to the community. https://linux-sunxi.org/Linux_mainlining_effort
 

Mainline kernels are newer, and the goal is to support as many boards as possible with the same kernel.

Not all devices have an as good support in mainline(yet). While for some it is just way better than the legacy kernel. This is again something you've got to find out for your self. There is not a simple answer for this.

Things often break in newer kernels. Patches that worked on earlier versions suddenly don't work anymore. Then it takes a lot of work/time/cost to find out what the cause of this is.

Then what I call @balbes150 Armbian. This is a fork of the Armbian project. He uses different kernels that he develops with the LibreELEC team.
"Balbes Armbian" is also different since he tries to make one image for as many devices as possible. Of which SBCs and many TV-Boxes.
While OG Armbian provides images for specific boards, and almost only for SBCs.

I guess that's all I've got to say about that. :)
Just arrived back home from a cycling trip. That's what made me look into SBCs. I wanted to be able to watch, edit and render videos on the go powered by solar panels. Can only do that with SBCs. It again ignited my love for tech.
Also used to be a fanatic a long time ago. Was a programmer early 2000's. Lost interest when the mother company of mine, L&H (speech technology) went bust.
I worked for CELE, which was a pioneer for and did a lot of great work around neural network development back then. They had a neural network machine, the CAMBrain.
After that I worked as PC tech but hated it. Costumers are never happy :) And PCs just became so boring.

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Thanks Nico.  Explaining it as you did, it is difficult to understand why the default download is Mainline. I would think it would be easier to provide the patched and fixed Legacy as the first choice, but if you need Mainline, it works on most things. I have always just assumed and if Mainline was available you should probably use that because the repositories aren't  going to exist long on the Legacy versions of the versions of the kernel. So frustrating when you have a computer worked out and you are happy oh, then you get a message that's your version is no longer supported by the repositories.  It's not like the Microsoft Tuesday night mandatory update, but it chaps my ass in much the same way.

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6 minutes ago, DeterminedOpier said:

I have always just assumed and if Mainline was available you should probably use that because the repositories aren't  going to exist long on the Legacy versions of the versions of the kernel. So frustrating when you have a computer worked out and you are happy oh, then you get a message that's your version is no longer supported by the repositories. 

The repositories don't really have much to do with kernel version. Changing kernels can break packages delivered in the repo's. This often can be fixed by installing a newer version of the package manually or use aptitude instead of apt to fix this.
 

 

14 minutes ago, DeterminedOpier said:

It's not like the Microsoft Tuesday night mandatory update, but it chaps my ass in much the same way.

The difference with Microsoft updates is that Armbian devs have tested the new kernels before release, and are often aware of problems. Microsoft fired their testers and uses their users for this.

And maybe there's a small difference in budget. If you sell your OS and then again earn money on users data, it's easy to have bigger budget.

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On 9/14/2020 at 4:12 PM, DeterminedOpier said:

The internet became a mean, entitled place where nobody has any accountability

 

Yes, I am mean sometimes, but not this case. I take your complains / suggestions legit which is why I am trying to explain you why things are as they are on best possible way. Perhaps too straightforward since I am tired of convincing people - helping people takes its tool.

 

8 hours ago, DeterminedOpier said:

Explaining it as you did, it is difficult to understand why the default download is Mainline. I would think it would be easier to provide the patched and fixed Legacy as the first choice


Legacy kernels are usually very very old and contains a lot of dirty code and proprietary solutions that will never be accepted to the Linux. In case of Allwinner, legacy kernel used to be 3.4.y which is 10+ years old and exactly nobody uses it. There is not a single person maintaining it yet. Since we invested our time to learn their proprietary code and fix many problems on the way we prolonged this period for several years, but that is. Allwinner dropped more recent legacy kernel 1-2 years ago with a kernel 4.4.y which is also on the edge of general support and again have new proprietary code / know-how usable only here. Again, nobody but vendors use it to show what device can do. Kernel support is often on a proof of concept level and if you want to bring that to levels you expect, someone would need to invest serious money (we receive around 3.000 EUR donations from you per year which doesn't cover electricity costs). Or have a great community interest which will took that code, make it run well and make it to the mainline kernel.

 

8 hours ago, DeterminedOpier said:

So frustrating when you have a computer


You are pressing to the wrong people. Without our and greater community work, those boards would simply remain paperweight.

 

On 9/13/2020 at 4:28 PM, DeterminedOpier said:

What does it mean when one has support and the other doesn't? (can't you just copy it over).  Why are these features, like hardware acceleration, so difficult to make work?


For example. To "copy and paste" video acceleration routines from legacy kernel to mainline to cover a few Allwinner based chips this project 

 was established on Kickstarter since community could not overcome difficulties and find enough resources needed to solve this problem. Even video acceleration routines were developed in about a year they are still in a kernel driver staging areas. This means they are not just there. They work, but not without problems.

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