Make forum messages friendlier -- 2021 Edition!

[lanefu]

Per meeting, we're still trying to improve our responses to "unsupported' inquries.

current thoughts

 

* revise "invalid label"

* focus on moving messages

[Werner]

I wish we could do more wit prefixes/lables but the options within invision are very limited. We had an addon for this but it stopped working month ago with an upgrade and the author does not support it anymore. There is another application that basically does the same but that also costs money

 

 

[Igor]

This idea is IMO more to change word "invalid" (and perhaps whole message) into something more friendly or funnier. People should not feel they made something terribly wrong ... even they don't read the whole message. We can suspect they don't.

[Werner]

I'll try to come up with something appropriate.

[belfastraven]

Would it perhaps help  to add the link to the bug reporting form to the heading for 

 

"Bug tracker - supported boards and images only"

 

e.g.  "Bug tracker for supported boards and images only-  please use  the bug reporting form found here for your initial posting.  "

 

and  if the form is not filled out,   just move the post to the "community supported"  forum.   

 

Might that not make it easier for @Werner  to moderate?  It would certainly be "friendlier".     Saying "invalid"  and telling people that they may have "refused"  to do something  comes across as sounding a bit hostile--I think perhaps this is somewhat of caused by having different ways of expressing things in different languages.    I think it is sometimes difficult to understand where to  ask  a question i you are just trying to ask for help in figuring something out,  rather than reporting a bug.  FWIW.  

 

 

 

 

[Werner]

6 hours ago, belfastraven said:

e.g.  "Bug tracker for supported boards and images only-  please use  the bug reporting form found here for your initial posting.  "

Well if you try to create a topic within a random bug tracker forum you will see a BIG FAT warning what to do and what not to do. Since often people dont care about that why should they for this text? Btw. The part with "supported boards/images only" has been added as well a few month ago.

[belfastraven]

@Werner,   I was perhaps not being clear enough in my suggestion.   I don't  have any experience with managing forum software,  but was wondering if you could actually stop people from generating new topics in the bug system except by their  using the bug reporting link.

 

So If someone tires to create a new topic without going through the bug reporting link,  they are directed to the community forum.  or their post is automativally moved there. ....    One could even add that that  fact to the header....    

 

It might actually come across  as "friendlier"  and probably would be less work for moderators,  but, as I said, I don't know enough about the forum software to know if that is even possible......  

 

Is Armbian still using the Invision Community  software?  IS the documentation for it available ?     I'd be happy to look into further trying to automate things if it would help...

 

 

[Werner]

17 minutes ago, belfastraven said:

,  but was wondering if you could actually stop people from generating new topics in the bug system except by their  using the bug reporting link.

The mentioned warning when trying to create a new topic in bug tracker forums actually tries to do that. If people follow the form at armbian.com/bugs they

- can do very basic trouble shooting on their own

- know what is supported and what is not and depending on that create topic in proper forums

- know how to collect all necessary information for further investigation

 

Have you tried it yet?

 

19 minutes ago, belfastraven said:

Is Armbian still using the Invision Community  software?  IS the documentation for it available ? 

Yes and no.

[Werner]

On 4/3/2021 at 5:26 PM, lanefu said:

* revise "invalid label"

I don't see anything that could replace invalid as word in this case. On common bug trackers issues are marked as either that for various reasons or insufficient info. Dividing in these cases would create more work for us which is the opposite of trying to reduce it.

 

There is an option to make the armbianmonitor field input mandatory rather than optional. Users are forced to enter some kind of URL there then.

 

Another option would be to simply do what our big fat warning states: "Issue reports that are not following these guidelines will be removed without further notice!"

 

Or move all issues that are invalid to p2p and let them rot there...

 

[SteeMan]

I don't see a problem with using the invalid label as it is invalid according to the directions the user has read (or not read).  What I think would improve this is giving the user more direction on what to do next.  I think some working changes in the post that closes the thread as invalid would be all that is necessary.  So instead of:

 

 

Your issue report is invalid for one or multiple reasons (non-exhaustive enumeration):

 

it has been stated at the wrong place

it lacks fundamental requested data

it could have been easily solved by a quick search and/or reading documentation

unsupported userspace/image/SBC

 

Since you refused to use the bug reporting form carefully and follow the information there as you have been asked for we have no intention to further investigate.

Please add missing information if applicable.

 

https://www.armbian.com/bugs

 

 

Something like:

 

Your issue report is not a valid bug report per the Armbian bug reporting instructions (https://www.armbian.com/bugs).  With limited resources the Armbian project is only able to spend time on issues where all the requested information has been provided and for only the boards/images/software that are supported.  Your report is invalid for one or more of the following reasons (non-exhaustive list):

 

- it is for an unsupported board or image

- it is for software that isn't supported (such as userspace modules installed on top of the core operating system)

- it has been logged in the wrong forum (for example requests for help that are not actual bug reports)

- it lacks requested data (armbianmonitor output)

- it could have been easily solved by a quick search and/or reading documentation

 

Please review what you have submitted and the bug logging instructions (https://www.armbian.com/bugs) and either add the required information or open a new topic in the correct forum (such as "Common issues / peer to peer technical support" or "General chit chat")

 

 

I think this softens the tone and tries to help the user do the right thing.  Which they likely still won't 

 

 

 

[Werner]

I adjusted the saved action to use the text above. Sample output: https://forum.armbian.com/topic/17436-invalid-sound-and-ethernet-on-s905-x3-4g-s96-max/?tab=comments#comment-122021

 

[SteeMan]

Given the following comment posted in response to the new invalid message discussed above:

 

"Hi Werner, I didn't realise I'd posted this as a bug I'll post it elsewhere"

 

I took another look at the language in the big red warning message that is displayed for people posting new topics in the bug tracking forums.  While it would seem obvious to those of us on the inside what we are trying to communicate, to the novice user I think there is room to make it more clear.  To that end I have the following suggested wording changes:

 

Current text:

 

Wait!

To avoid common mistakes when opening issues use this form to make sure you have collected all necessary information and create your issue report at the correct place:

>> https://armbian.com/bugs <<

Issue reports that are not following these guidelines will be removed without further notice!

 

Suggested text:

 

Important Please Read Before Posting a New Topic (Bug Report)!

 

You are about to post a new topic in the Armbian Bug Tracker.  Armbian uses the sub-forums under "Bug tracker - supported boards and images only" as it's public facing bug reporting system. If you really intend to report a bug please fill out the following form to supply the necessary information for a valid bug report:

 

>> https://armbian.com/bugs <<

 

With limited resources the Armbian project is only able to spend time investigating bugs where all the requested information has been provided and for only the boards/images/software that are supported.  Your bug report will be considered invalid and receive no attention if you do not supply the requested information.

 

If you only have a question or are looking for help on something in general related to Armbian, you should be submitting your question in one of the "Community forums", such as "Common issues / peer to peer technical support" or "General chit chat", not in this bug reporting forum.

[Werner]

On 4/8/2021 at 3:31 PM, SteeMan said:

...

Totally forgot about that. Text adjusted.

[Igor]

Within this:

 

Another idea is to promote "we need your help forum", subscriptions, donations - to raise awareness that contributing to the project should be their first step before asking us to work for them free of charge. Already too much is an attention on their problem. Its their way of showing respect for our time, not exactly paying for services ... 

But they can also skip and try without. Like this is now. Perhaps they will get some help, perhaps not. 

[tparys]

Would it be helpful to pin / sticky a forum post of "Why was my post marked Invalid?", and just have the standard response point to that? Have a quick run down of why posts might be marked that way, and what to correct in the post to get help?

 

I understand why the standard response is why it is, however I've also run across end users who don't grasp why all that information is necessary, and may just come across as the forum mods being sticklers. They literally don't understand the severe boot differences that may exist between otherwise identical looking boards.

[Werner]

1 hour ago, tparys said:

Have a quick run down of why posts might be marked that way, and what to correct in the post to get help?

Actually all that is mentioned in the default reply on invalid reports which is created in two clicks. So no advantage in saving time in this approach.

Also some forums already have quite a bunch of pinned topics and I do not want to reserve even more space above everything else.

 

1 hour ago, tparys said:

identical looking boards

That's it. There needs to be some optical difference somehow...

[tparys]

On 5/19/2021 at 11:41 PM, Werner said:

Actually all that is mentioned in the default reply on invalid reports

 

I suppose my comment is more that it comes across as the person screwed up and the post will be locked, rather than they've not yet provided the proper information they need to get help. Perhaps it's just my impression reading the standard response.

[TonyMac32]

The "Invalid" tag is cancer.  That needs to be "Off-topic", "Out of scope", "needs clarification" or something else.

 

Honestly we are actively rebranding ourselves as a toxic community at a terrifying rate.

[Werner]

Depending how situation will come out the bug tracker forums could be shrinked and a few merged (for example do whole forum for sunxi/64 family which saves us two subforums or merge whole rk family) and create a new one for unsupported/csc/wip and simply move stuff there? This would reduce the amount of tags for these boards.

However on truly supported boards we rely on user info like armbianmonitor which often enough is the case that users refuse to give this info.

 

Btw. for common bug trackers (which are not necessarily based on forums software but Mantis or Bugzilla) it is not uncommon to mark bugs as invalid. Our issue I guess is that they are branded kind a visible in comparison to other threads where bug tracking software has tags like "new" or "triaged" or whatever. However to keep those tags accordingly will create work/pressure on us while marking a thread as solved can user do themselves atm.

[lanefu]

4 hours ago, Werner said:

However on truly supported boards we rely on user info like armbianmonitor which often enough is the case that users refuse to give this info.

 

That reminds me that armbianmonitors light ping test frequently fails and causes it not to upload to ix.io

[Werner]

4 minutes ago, lanefu said:

 

That reminds me that armbianmonitors light ping test frequently fails and causes it not to upload to ix.io

Thankfully there is the -U fallback option