4 4
AnonymousPi

Raspberry Pi 4 Released - From $35 USD

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Yep. The Orange Pi's are  total garbage. All they really are is a Chinese TV box without a case! Might as well buy a TV box!

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6 minutes ago, AnonymousPi said:

Yep. The Orange Pi's are  total garbage. All they really are is a Chinese TV box without a case! Might as well buy a TV box!

 

I couldn't less agree on this one.. :D

 

It is a TV box SoC with schematics.. It might not matter if you only consume and someone else provides the images.. But it matters if you're on the other side. You (mostly) know what you get, whereas TV boxes sometimes change depending on what is cheaper at the moment (e.g. different wifi module, NAND instead of eMMC etc.).

 

4 hours ago, hojnikb said:

I wonder how chinese will respond.

well.. IMO it was RPi who had to respond.. all those RK3399 based boards crushed the RPi fully..

 

I assume we'll see more specialized SBCs in the future. e.g. https://www.cnx-software.com/2019/06/19/rock-pi-s-tiny-sbc-rockchip-rk3308-processor/

some NAS ones etc.

 

Indeed it is the first RPi since v2 which doesn't look annoying. They try their first step away from VC4 which might be interesting.. I don't get this (claimed) full backwards compatibility of images. IMO it was a good opportunity to make a cut (keep, pin-compatibility etc. but craft an image which is either fully armhf - or arm64). having a VC4 and a VC6 branch of raspian is something the majority of their believers would probably accept.

 

I will likely buy one (will be the first one I bought after the Pi2 IIRC), I've a project where the A72 cores might shine, and if thermals are somehow controllable passively, 4xA72 for 35$ looks good to me (don't need really much ram for this project, it's really about numbers crunshing). They did a couple of things right, e.g. SPI NOR, USB-C instead of microUSB (btw it's a 'dumb' one right? so no PD), even the double HDMI was IMO a smart move (now it's somehow unique to its competitors). And from the software side I'm quite sure things will mature over time (looking forward to the PXE, my project would really benefit from a proper PXE implementation), and we'll soon get some deeper insights from people experienced in kernelcode.. E.g.

https://www.cnx-software.com/2019/06/24/raspberry-pi-4-features-broadcom-bcm2711-processor-up-to-4gb-ram/#comment-563948

 

But I don't think that 'chinese' (whatever that means) have to respond. For different use-cased several companies have a good line-up, and the user group they target is often different.

 

It was a needed, and from the first glace well crafted update of the (IMO) complete failure called RPi3b+. I was surprised by the 4xA72 core they've chosen and the 1,2 and 4 GB ram was smart too. Let's face it, the average 'rich' user will always opt for the 4GB variant no matter he needs it or not and I assume the profit margin will be slightly higher with this variant.

 

 

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I'll reserve opinions for now, other than it seems like a good step forward for the RPi team, and an appreciation for the amount of effort to basically tailor a chip for their product.

 

But it seems like a nice device, and Pi has good community support, and they offer both HW and SW that works for their audience - so that's all good.

 

Quick thoughts though...

 

1) 4 big ARM cores - 28nm, so some thermal challenges as we know from other SoC vendors on this node

2) VC6 - which is a big step from the BCM chips that Pi has used in the past

3) Real USB3 - early reports is there is opportunity for Pi folks to improve some perf there

4) Real 1Gb Ethernet - same here - driver work is likely going to improve performance

5) Early reports are that the USB-C for power is also USB2 OTG - need to confirm

 

Big step for them on the HW side, and moving to Buster for Raspbian is a bit bold, considering that Buster at the moment is still in testing upstream - Rasbian is still 32-bit, so I get that, and that's not a complaint, just an observation.

 

That being said - It's still in many ways the same story - there's Open, and then there is Kinda Open - Pi's prior to Pi4B were in that Kinda Open realm with the odd bootloader and sequence there, along with it having a close source OS underlying it all running on the VC4 host.

 

Busy with jobby-job stuff at the moment, so I'll let other run into the fire on Pi4B.

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looks promising. Surprised that they included dual display output.

I wonder what the Performence of the videocore VI will be like.

 

 

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On 6/25/2019 at 4:45 AM, sfx2000 said:

That being said - It's still in many ways the same story - there's Open, and then there is Kinda Open - Pi's prior to Pi4B were in that Kinda Open realm with the odd bootloader and sequence there, along with it having a close source OS underlying it all running on the VC4 host.

 

They are still "kinda open": the BLOB firmware is still there, and the GPU is still in control of everything

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I got mine today - will play with it tonight :-)

 

The ones in the store seemed to work great.

 

 

pi4.jpg

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On 6/26/2019 at 3:39 PM, yam1 said:

I got mine today - will play with it tonight :-)

 

The ones in the store seemed to work great.

 

That was quick  :) Is it a 4GB version?

 

Can you please run on the pi 4

sysbench cpu --cpu-max-prime=20000 run

and

sysbench cpu --num-threads=4 --cpu-max-prime=20000 run

 

to do a simple cpu performance comparison with  this post?

 

https://forum.armbian.com/topic/8263-armbian-for-khadas-edge-and-edge-vim-rk3399/?do=findComment&comment=77038

 

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Does this model have a WiFi\BT antenna ?

Tests have shown that without a good cooling system, this device can not be used.

 

On 6/28/2019 at 2:27 AM, armar said:

Can you please run on the pi 4

See the on CNX, there are tests and results.

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On 6/24/2019 at 10:45 PM, sfx2000 said:

Quick thoughts though...

 

1) 4 big ARM cores - 28nm, so some thermal challenges as we know from other SoC vendors on this node

2) VC6 - which is a big step from the BCM chips that Pi has used in the past

3) Real USB3 - early reports is there is opportunity for Pi folks to improve some perf there

4) Real 1Gb Ethernet - same here - driver work is likely going to improve performance

5) Early reports are that the USB-C for power is also USB2 OTG - need to confirm

 

- 4 big cores on 28 nm, see the Tinker Board for a lesson in cooling that form factor.  (the Pi seems oddly underclocked, if I'm being honest, a 3288 will go 1.8 GHz, @wtarreau will tell you 2.0+)

 

- As far as USB3/Gb, the tunnel-vision Pi people would have seen an insane improvement with just 4x USB2 on their own channels and a 100 Mb PHY.  So yes, they are going to think they're lighting the world on fire performance wise.

 

- That USB-C does not appear to be intelligent PD type, so I'd be interested to see when people use smart supplies with it, if it will run on the 500 mA they'll probably limit to.  (correct me if I've gotten it mixed up)

 

It looks more interesting than the Pi 3, I bought a few 3's and have since let them rot.  I still used a 2 until recently for music.

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32 minutes ago, TonyMac32 said:

so I'd be interested to see when people use smart supplies with it, if it will run on the 500 mA they'll probably limit to.  (correct me if I've gotten it mixed up)

 

USB-Power-Sources-840x351.jpg


Without PD, voltage is fixed to 5V and current up to 3A ... which is tight.

 

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3 minutes ago, Igor said:

Without PD, voltage is fixed to 5V and current up to 3A ... which is tight.

 

And even that is optimistic.  I have a USB3 PD wall adapter here (USBA to C cable), it's 2.6A at 5V.  I've seen a few 1.5's as shown above.

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5 minutes ago, TonyMac32 said:

And even that is optimistic.


Absolutely. That's in theory while most of the USB-c gears on the market is crap. You need a combination of luck and persistence to get a decent cable or a PSU ... Especially in a situation without PD. It will be interesting.

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FYI:

 

asked about ext4 support for boot to get rid off the FAT partition:

https://www.raspberrypi.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=63&t=243890&p=1487617#p1487617

seems not of importance for them..

 

On 6/30/2019 at 9:59 PM, Igor said:

 

USB-Power-Sources-840x351.jpg


Without PD, voltage is fixed to 5V and current up to 3A ... which is tight.

some charger issues:

https://www.raspberrypi.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=63&t=244146

and a nice link provided there:

https://www.scorpia.co.uk/2019/06/28/pi4-not-working-with-some-chargers-or-why-you-need-two-cc-resistors/

as with more or less every boardmaker, things are not mature in the beginnings.. But at least some of the flaws will likely be fixed over time..

 

 

 

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Definitely better than any TV-box - and to get a decent TV-box, you'd have to pay way more.

I've four 3 B+ ordered, which also beats most TV-boxes; one of these will replace my V88, thus I'll be sure not to be fined for EMI pollution as well. ;)

-So as you have probably guessed, I'm completely done purchasing TV-boxes.

 

Update: The seller ran out of 3 B+, so he was kind enough to replace two boards with 1GB v4 models.

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1 hour ago, Jens Bauer said:

Definitely better than any TV-box - and to get a decent TV-box, you'd have to pay way more.

well depends on usecase as always.. if you add the power-supply and the case and the micro HDMI to get "a KODI box" then the price difference is minor and in terms of thermal design they don't give each other much.. :ph34r::D But the whole TV box stuff is anyways of minor interest to me... :D

 

I'm quite sure the RPi4 will be a huge success for them.. It has more or less everything the average joe wants including USB3 for a 'decent NAS'.. They might figure out that once more than one plate is added things get messy.. But that is then for sure somehow a feature not a bug.. :D  I don't like their forum.. It's always the same 5-6 suspects answering there.. to everything and it's always the user getting blamed, never the documentation nor the software nor the whatever...  I know we blame quite often the user here as well but we at least admit from time to time that over software sucks as well.. that things aren't perfect.. :D

Even the fact I don't like the attitude in the RPi forum.. it can be funny as well.. :D Especially when you don't agree on everything.. :D:ph34r: and from time to time.. there's some interesting stuff there to read.

 

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6 minutes ago, chwe said:

if you add the power-supply and the case and the micro HDMI to get "a KODI box" then the price difference is minor and in terms of thermal design they don't give each other much..

 

I don't care much for a 'nice box' anyway. But what I really dislike about TV-boxes is that they are "firmware upgradable", which means they might have made the support for firmware upgrade, but never release any new firmware. Thus you're always stuck with Android 0.21 if you're not a technical genious.

-I've attempted to put Linux on a CS918 once. The RkFlashTool wore out my on-board NAND, so it's rotting somwhere in a box or a table or wherever I put it.

 

I do think they'll be successful. It's not a top-of-the-class board, but it's not the worst you can get either. Most not-too-tech-savvy people will be able to get one of these boards up and running.

 

I care not at all for USB3. It should never have been 'invented'. An absolutely maximum speed for 5Gbit USB3 of 375MB/sec says it all. USB has always been flakey / unreliable. Nah, gimme as many native SATA ports and PCIe slots instead, then I'll figure out what to do with them. =D

 

As for the power supply problems - there'll probably be a few people having problems. Someone gave me a Dell laptop that wouldn't stay on (because the power supply didn't want to feed it, since the PSU thought that the battery was too old - horrible crap, never buy Dell). Personally I'll likely cut a USB-C male-to-male cable in two and make my own PSU. (My v4 boards will go into the 19" rack with nothing connected via USB anyway, so it'll likely draw less than 2A per board).

 

Remember: You never, ever get what you pay for. You get 'up to' what you pay for. ;)

 

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13 hours ago, Jens Bauer said:

Definitely better than any TV-box - and to get a decent TV-box, you'd have to pay way more.

Thank you, you gave me 10 minutes of laughter. :)

RPi is not able to even compete with normal TV boxes. His destiny, the competition with clone stuff and fakes. :)

The real price of the RPI 4 kit , which will be comparable to the average TV box starts from 70-80. This is a naive tale for losers that RPi 4 is cheap, designed for those who do not know how to count elementary. :)

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10 hours ago, balbes150 said:

Thank you, you gave me 10 minutes of laughter. :)

RPi is not able to even compete with normal TV boxes. His destiny, the competition with clone stuff and fakes. :)

The real price of the RPI 4 kit , which will be comparable to the average TV box starts from 70-80. This is a naive tale for losers that RPi 4 is cheap, designed for those who do not know how to count elementary. :)

Ignoring support and documentation from the board manifacturer, GPIO pins and peripheral buses access, expandability, warranty, construction and international safety certifications... Looking just at the basic horsepower, tell us what tv box can you buy that provides 4 out-of-order A72 cores for 35$?

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22 hours ago, chwe said:

well depends on usecase as always.. if you add the power-supply and the case and the micro HDMI to get "a KODI box" then the price difference is minor and in terms of thermal design they don't give each other much.. :ph34r::D But the whole TV box stuff is anyways of minor interest to me... :D

 

I'm quite sure the RPi4 will be a huge success for them.. It has more or less everything the average joe wants including USB3 for a 'decent NAS'.. They might figure out that once more than one plate is added things get messy.. But that is then for sure somehow a feature not a bug.. :D  I don't like their forum.. It's always the same 5-6 suspects answering there.. to everything and it's always the user getting blamed, never the documentation nor the software nor the whatever...  I know we blame quite often the user here as well but we at least admit from time to time that over software sucks as well.. that things aren't perfect.. :D

Even the fact I don't like the attitude in the RPi forum.. it can be funny as well.. :D Especially when you don't agree on everything.. :D:ph34r: and from time to time.. there's some interesting stuff there to read.

 

Probably they have such a large userbase of people asking for anything that their standard attitude is to avoid pesky threads and questions at all. Some of the most present engineers get quite nervous often, expecially when there are some critics against the firmware. :D

They get collaborative when you show that you have serious and concrete proposals, otherwise you're lucky if you get a useless response which tells you things you already know.

 

The new device is pretty interesting overall: lot of horsepower, real gigabit, 2x USB3 and 2x USB2 ports, 2x HDMI and the usual set of GPIOs. It would be the dream SBC for 35$ if they have put away their shitty closed source firmware which is also causing tons and tons of headaches.

It looks like they are afraid of losing the control over the product they are making: you're free to do anything you want, but they keep the reins of the project in their hand.

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10 hours ago, jock said:

Looking just at the basic horsepower, tell us what tv box can you buy that provides 4 out-of-order A72 cores for 35$?

I suppose @balbes150  wanted to say: If you buy a RPi, a cover/box, a remote, a PowerSupply and a HDMI cable... than you spend around 70-80. That said, what TV-Box can you get for 70-80 bucks?

 

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11 hours ago, jock said:

Ignoring support and documentation from the board manifacturer,

I, as a user of TV box (if you remember the purpose of TV box), absolutely indifferent to the availability of any technical documentation. I'm not buying a TV box to study his device.

 

11 hours ago, jock said:

GPIO pins and peripheral buses access, expandability,

Users do not even know such terms. :) They do not care about all this stuff. The maximum they need is the ability to easily (via USB) connect standard additional equipment (wireless mouse, keyboard, joystick, external drive, camera, printer, etc.).

 

11 hours ago, jock said:

warranty,  .....  international safety certifications..

Any normal TV box has a guarantee and some, it is significantly more than the RPi. But if you're trying to buy the cheapest shit from questionable sellers, it has nothing to do with the quality of TV boxes. This is an indicator of the level of greed of the user who believes in all sorts of fairy tales. :)

 

11 hours ago, jock said:

construction

RPI has a bad design. One example, an attempt to distribute heat across the Board, it causes a strong overheating of all components and as a result a sharp decrease in the durability of the device and especially the SD card (overheating very quickly kills the SD card and as a result the information on it). Another example of stupidity (in terms of use as a TV box) - micro HDMI. I hope you don't need to explain why this is bad ?

 

11 hours ago, jock said:

Looking just at the basic horsepower, tell us what tv box can you buy that provides 4 out-of-order A72 cores for 35$? 

I'll tell  a big secret. :) For the TV box does not need huge CPU power. First of all, we need other elements - hardware decoders and image management (VPU\GPU). Now s905x2 (s912 if there is no need for USB 3.0) and rk3328 provide the needs of users of TV boxes.  And with the output of rk3580 and s905x3\d3 about RPi as TV box you can forget. I do not mention s922\a311d and RK3399\rk3588 , in comparison with which RPi is not quoted at all.

 

I really want to see how you will use the "dummy" for 35 as a TV box. :) No power supply, no remote control, no cooling system (to somehow use the capabilities of 4 core A73 28nm), no media (very good SD card or external USB 3.0 media). Without the case (without it you can do), but I think the vast majority of users will not be happy with this appearance. Or you, all these components will give free ? :) So the real price for RPi as an alternative to TV box (at least 2\16) will be from 80. And you still have to suffer with the recording of images, their correct launch, Assembly of the whole set. :)

 

I do not know how RPi with Android (unfortunately, now Android is the de facto home system for TV boxes). But I strongly doubt that there is something qualitative and automatically updated. Good TV boxes have high-quality firmware and they are regularly automatically updated from the manufacturer's server.

 

The purpose of an RPI in another is a device for automation (where sensors and devices need to be controlled) or design\robotic.

 

 

 

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1 hour ago, Tido said:

That said, what TV-Box can you get for 70-80 bucks? 

I'm not sure that this topic is acceptable "advertising" specific models (brands). :)

You can search for models based on s905x2 (currently this is the best option in terms of cost/result). Or not much, to wait for the release of rk3580 and models based on it.

 

 

I recommend not to rush with the purchase of TV boxes right now (if there is no real need). In the coming months, we are waiting for a lot of interesting events and news that will significantly change the current situation .  :)

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2 hours ago, Tido said:

I suppose @balbes150  wanted to say: If you buy a RPi, a cover/box, a remote, a PowerSupply and a HDMI cable... than you spend around 70-80. That said, what TV-Box can you get for 70-80 bucks?

 

Of course, but that's an apples-to-oranges comparison. The purposes of the two devices are not the same. It's obvious that if I buy a RPi to use as a tv box, the total cost will be like buying a proper tv box, but indeed an SBC is quite more flexible.

 

1 hour ago, balbes150 said:

Users do not even know such terms. :) They do not care about all this stuff. The maximum they need is the ability to easily (via USB) connect standard additional equipment (wireless mouse, keyboard, joystick, external drive, camera, printer, etc.). 

You care about documentation when you want to do something serious without losing ages understanding how the hardware works. An example: how much of struggle community needed to get video decoding capabilities for chinese SoCs? How much struggle to get hardware acceleration for 2D/3D tasks? Reverse engineering is now giving back some fruits, after years, because of lack of documentation and openness.

 

1 hour ago, balbes150 said:

Users do not even know such terms. :) They do not care about all this stuff. The maximum they need is the ability to easily (via USB) connect standard additional equipment (wireless mouse, keyboard, joystick, external drive, camera, printer, etc.). 

Sure they do: the amount of HATs of all kinds available for the RPi is there to confirm this. Also other SBC manufacturers implement their GPIO header using the same RPi scheme for such reason.

 

1 hour ago, balbes150 said:

RPI has a bad design. One example, an attempt to distribute heat across the Board, it causes a strong overheating of all components and as a result a sharp decrease in the durability of the device and especially the SD card (overheating very quickly kills the SD card and as a result the information on it). Another example of stupidity (in terms of use as a TV box) - micro HDMI. I hope you don't need to explain why this is bad ?

I got a dozen or more RPi 1 Model B (those with the linear regulator) which are working perfectly well after more than 5 years of 24/7 hard loaded CPU and GPU duties (digital signage, content reproduction), so the durability issues with the RPi are fairy tales aired by people with little or no experience. Out of several hundreds RPi I regularly monitor, just 4 of them came back because they broke: 2 RPi1 model B came back because someone broke the SDcard connector, other 2 RPi2 Model B Rev1.2 (these were made in P.R.C.) had issues with the USB ports. RPi limits and problems are elsewhere than overheating (most SBCs and tv boxes have some kind of "overheating issues") and durability.

 

1 hour ago, balbes150 said:

The purpose of an RPI in another is a device for automation (where sensors and devices need to be controlled) or design\robotic.

The purpose of the RPi is being an SBC, with all the capabilities it has. You can use it to code, to teach and learn, for automation tasks, you can even run a business around it as many already did or just use as a media center.

 

 

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On 7/3/2019 at 11:23 AM, balbes150 said:

Thank you, you gave me 10 minutes of laughter. :)

RPi is not able to even compete with normal TV boxes. His destiny, the competition with clone stuff and fakes. :)

The real price of the RPI 4 kit , which will be comparable to the average TV box starts from 70-80. This is a naive tale for losers that RPi 4 is cheap, designed for those who do not know how to count elementary. :)

Problem is that a TV-box might cost you way more than $10000, even though its price-tag only says $20.

https://www.cnx-software.com/2019/04/10/fcc-tv-box-fine-147000-dollars/

-But that aside, I'm no longer a techie, I'm sadly becoming a dumb average-joe now.

I have a TV-box running Android 6.x I think it is; you already know that it's Linux with its arms and legs cut off, so it can do virtually nothing useful.

The Raspberry Pi (whichever version) has a larger community than any TV-box will ever have.

I never really liked Raspberry Pi - I've always seen it as a marketing-hype thing.

But comparing the prices again.

Let's say you're located in China, you'll have no problem getting a low-cost TV-box that probably serves you well.

The Raspberry Pi will cost way more in China, because shipping has to be added.

If you're in Europe and purchase any (any!) TV-box, you will have to pay duties.

In Denmark you'll need to add the shipping price to the item value (TV-box is $20, shipping may be as low as $5, so you add those two numbers, then you multiply by 1.25 and get your final price. If that's above $171.65, then you'll have to multiply further by 1.05 ... 1.20, this is TAX).

My $20 TV-box does not decode h.265 and it's advertised as 4K, but it can't even handle that. It *does* have GbE though. If you attach a USB-joystick in order to play games, you soon find out that it's impossible to control anything that way. You also find out quickly that a USB-keyboard won't work with Android, because they thought it very bright to remap the arrow-keys, so they control the mouse arrow instead. Enough to drive you crazy and never want to use a TV-box with Android again. All the games are made for mobile-phones, so they're absolutely useless on Android. Try a ZX Spectrum or Commodore 64 or Atari ST emulator on the thing and see if you can use it for real.

Thus you will not want to purchase a Raspberry Pi from China if you're in Europe.

To make a fair comparison, my Raspberry Pi cost $39 including shipping from the UK to Denmark.

If I had to purchase a $35 TV-box, it would cost me $43 and then I'd have to fiddle with hacking it to get it to run Linux.

The Raspberry Pi 3 B+ does not reach the full 1Gbit/sec on ethernet, but it does decode h.265 and it does play video quite smoothly on my 1920x1080 display, no stuttering/chopping encountered yet.

 

-All that said, I admire all the work you're doing with TV-boxes; I'm not at all against running Linux on TV-boxes and I think what you do is absolutely fantastic. :)

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37 minutes ago, jock said:

Of course, but that's an apples-to-oranges comparison. The purposes of the two devices are not the same. It's obvious that if I buy a RPi to use as a tv box, the total cost will be like buying a proper tv box, but indeed an SBC is quite more flexible.

A priori, the price of a set of RPI will always be higher than the price of comparable TV box. This is an objective reality, because SbS have a number of "extra" elements and not the optimal design in comparison with the TV box. TV box is a specialized device in which everything is sharpened to perform a specific function. Therefore, it will always be cheaper than a similar "multifunctional" device. If this were not so, no manufacturer TV boxes would not have to spend time for their production, and stupidly  would take the SbS and turn it into these TV boxes.

 

44 minutes ago, jock said:

You care about documentation when you want to do something serious without losing ages understanding how the hardware works. An example: how much of struggle community needed to get video decoding capabilities for chinese SoCs? How much struggle to get hardware acceleration for 2D/3D tasks? Reverse engineering is now giving back some fruits, after years, because of lack of documentation and openness.

No need to juggle and substitute concepts. Don't mix Android system development and Linux-based system development. It is a completely different direction. The main system for TV boxes is Android and it has all the necessary documentation and access to all technical resources. By the way, Your information about support for a number of ARM platforms in the main core is very outdated. Confirmation of this, the release in the near future of new images of Libreelec with a new kernel on the platforms Amlogic Rockchip and Allwiner. :)

 

59 minutes ago, jock said:

Sure they do: the amount of HATs of all kinds available for the RPi is there to confirm this. Also other SBC manufacturers implement their GPIO header using the same RPi scheme for such reason. 

You confirm that the "clean" RPi is not suitable for standard use as a TV box. And you have to spend extra money to get the necessary functionality. For example, it put the module WiFi\Bt, but there is no normal antenna, without which it will not work properly. :)

 

1 hour ago, jock said:

I got a dozen or more RPi 1 Model B (those with the linear regulator) which are working perfectly well after more than 5 years of 24/7 hard loaded CPU and GPU duties (digital signage, content reproduction), so the durability issues with the RPi are fairy tales aired by people with little or no experience. Out of several hundreds RPi I regularly monitor, just 4 of them came back because they broke: 2 RPi1 model B came back because someone broke the SDcard connector, other 2 RPi2 Model B Rev1.2 (these were made in P.R.C.) had issues with the USB ports. RPi limits and problems are elsewhere than overheating (most SBCs and tv boxes have some kind of "overheating issues") and durability. 

I see that You are very prone to distort and replace concepts. The design and parameters of RPI 1 and 2 have nothing to do with RPi 4. It is a completely different platform, having a very different thermopowers.

 

p.s. You are always trying to distort the essence of the discussion, so I see no point in continuing the discussion with You.

 

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